Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us about national unity" b

Not really unexpected I guess, considering the usual bandwagon jumping by the tabloids in Britain, but this is in today's Mirror. :mad:

mirror.jpg



Link to online version posted by MORRIZSEY (original post):

Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us about national unity - by Tony Parsons, The Mirror

 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Back in the '80s people who listened to bands like the Smiths, or artists like Billy Bragg used to be articulate with social and democratic sensibilities, against Thatcherism, or royalism (which, above all, is sociologically ridiculous and unfair). It surprises me to see today so many British bulldogs supporting the holy "Empire" in this forum. Unfortunately things have dangerously shifted to the right over the years...

I see two possibilities, here: (a) you don't understand the nature of "empire"; or (b) you don't understand the UK's relationship with the Falkland Islands. Alternatively, you don't understand either.
 
G

goinghome

Guest
The Daily Mail begins to admit that it's banging Kipling's old drum, as Morrissey smokes all the media racists, usually so pose-perfect in their political correctness and now stamping the ground about their assumed imperial rights, out of their hutches - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-like-Morrissey-date.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-laying-Prince-William.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

"The UK has no legal right to the islands and only defends them to exploit oil and gas reserves". .. - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/03/argentina-britain-islands-oil
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Back in the '80s people who listened to bands like the Smiths, or artists like Billy Bragg used to be articulate with social and democratic sensibilities, against Thatcherism, or royalism (which, above all, is sociologically ridiculous and unfair). It surprises me to see today so many British bulldogs supporting the holy "Empire" in this forum. Unfortunately things have dangerously shifted to the right over the years...

The only thing "dangerous" is a fan base that hangs on your every blessed word or opinion for enlightenment. I've been a fan of Morrissey's work plenty long, back to his Smiths days, and I've never felt the need to agree with him on all of his political views or other ideas. Think for yourself folks. Appreciate his opinions, and be glad if you happen to share a few, as I do. Can you dare to admit the man might be incorrect on a few things? Do it, it's healthy.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Morrissey is entitled to his opinion isn't he? Isn't that what Great Britain is supposed to be all about?

So why don't the newspapers write about the real things that matter in the world, and leave us Morrissey fans to
leave us to Morrissey, and sod politics.

Stick to trotting out the meaningless dirges Morrissey. You are a traitor.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

The Daily Mail begins to admit that it's banging Kipling's old drum, as Morrissey smokes all the media racists, usually so pose-perfect in their political correctness and now stamping the ground about their assumed imperial rights, out of their hutches - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-like-Morrissey-date.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Morrissey "smokes out racists" who write for the "politically correct" Daily Mail? Ummm... have you ever read the Daily Mail? This is a newspaper that openly supported the Blackshirts and whose proprietor, in 1933, wrote the following:

I urge all British young men and women to study closely the progress of the Nazi regime in Germany. They must not be misled by the misrepresentations of its opponents. The most spiteful distracters of the Nazis are to be found in precisely the same sections of the British public and press as are most vehement in their praises of the Soviet regime in Russia. They have started a clamorous campaign of denunciation against what they call "Nazi atrocities" which, as anyone who visits Germany quickly discovers for himself, consists merely of a few isolated acts of violence such as are inevitable among a nation half as big again as ours, but which have been generalized, multiplied and exaggerated to give the impression that Nazi rule is a bloodthirsty tyranny.

Racists at the Daily Fail don't require much "smoking out".

"The UK has no legal right to the islands and only defends them to exploit oil and gas reserves". .. - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/03/argentina-britain-islands-oil

The New Statesman's blogger's claim that the UK's loyalty to the Falklands' rests solely on possible oil revenues is, at best, dubious since, decades after the Argentine military junta's illegal invasion, the much-sought-after oil reserves were still proving extremely elusive:

Previous searches for oil in and around the Falklands have proved particularly disappointing, with exploratory projects in the late 1990s finding no reserves of a commercial scale (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/22/falkland-islands-oil-drilling-begins).

Fears about the lack of significant oil finds to the north of the Falkland Islands escalated after two companies came up almost empty-handed in the first attempt for 12 years to drill in the politically sensitive region.

Desire Petroleum's market value halved yesterday after it announced to the markets that its Liz 14/19-1 well on the North Falkland basin had come up short of expectations for oil, with reports that the reserves it found would not be commercially viable.

The group said it had found indications of hydrocarbons while drilling at 2,550 metres. Tests showed that "oil may be present in thin intervals but that reservoir quality is poor" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-oil-in-test-sites-off-falklands-1930807.html)

Although Steven's acolytes might want to question the British government's motives for protecting the Falklands, the fact remains that the UK leapt to the defence of the Islanders against the Argentine onslaught in 1982, long before oil was a realistic consideration.
 

gonzo

Junior Member
In 1992, after the Finsbury Park debacle, the same author (Tony Parsons) wrote a staunch defence of Moz in Vox magazine. He stated that after Your Arsenal, Morrissey could invade Poland and he wouldn't think he was racist.

Interesting to see his take now.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

In 1992, after the Finsbury Park debacle, the same author (Tony Parsons) wrote a staunch defence of Moz in Vox magazine. He stated that after Your Arsenal, Morrissey could invade Poland and he wouldn't think he was racist.

Interesting to see his take now.

Oh well, twenty years have passed, so I suppose his opinions have had plenty of time to mature. If only Morrissey had used his time as wisely. I'd feel sad for him if it weren't so funny.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Yes this article is just shite, but Moz does talk out his arse, just a croud pleaser.
slags of loads of coutries, showing hatred of everyone in that country, because he can't treat people as individuals. he is a fascist, for example; Mexicans can do no wrong, even though they do such cruel things to animals(yes not all, i don't have a prob with mexicans), Yet he boycotts Canada for seal clubbing, slagged off england for fox hunting ect. yet nothing about mexicans except there all amazing. he's a fascist, very selective of who he slags off, which makes you think he doesn't really care about the animals that much, mostly using them for publicity. It's amazing that he has the guts to play in certain coutries when all he does is show his fascism towards them.
 

celibate

Forever Ill
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Some people can only read and write on this poor site.

Celibate, you had to one of the man's show should go.

And not keep whining about a Smiths reunion (which is not there)

But you had to destroy your ticket (where you never have a photo of show)

As with the (almost) sold out shows morrissey proves again that he did not have the date.

Forget the Smiths reunion.

deleted my post about your a ticket [I still have my Eindhoven one][liar, postadress]

I read your and mine posts over and over

I never claimed for a reunion, just said Morrissey is in a circle going down

just easy scoring about Assad, Falkland,Prince Wiliam and his wife Kate

I say he just keeps on touring with the same setlist, re-releases [remastered]
only come out, which he claims not to buy

I say mayybe the celebration of 30 years the Smiths [as seen in musichistory]
Morrissey hopefully get some new inspiration, creative, lyrics as sharp and touching

I don't want my inspiration and Legend fade away with kicking around and his carrreer
on hold

just want it to keep it on-topic, but don't judge a 46 [47 iover 3weeks] old guy who was 18 in 1983...
writing crap about tickets and shows, come around, I didn't destroy it, I still HAVE it, the Eindhoven one

grow up, and judge for yourself and don't act like you are Morrissey, or defend every word is written
about him or said by Bby the M in Manchester

out!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Morrissey in entitled to say what he wants on tour - but when he goes on stage to a 15k crowd in Argentina and says 'the people of Britain believe that the malvinas belong to Argentina it is totally unacceptable. How does he know this ? Truth is, he does not, and actually his view is very much misguided based on the opinions of many people I know. Even some of my friends in Buenos Aires think what he said was stupid. He should explain how he know this, or issue an apology.
 

billy scissors

a bit fond
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Some people can only read and write on this poor site.

Celibate, you had to one of the man's show should go.

And not keep whining about a Smiths reunion (which is not there)

But you had to destroy your ticket (where you never have a photo of show)

As with the (almost) sold out shows morrissey proves again that he did not have the date.

Forget the Smiths reunion.

:confused:
 

Bagpuss

New Member
I'm actually staggered by some of the pro-Imperialist bullcrap on here. I was accussed of shedding crocodile tears! Well, tell that to the 1000s of people still affected by the troubles in Northern Ireland (possibly due to the migration of thousands of Scottish Protestants at the turn of the last century! Doh!), the ancestors of the victims of concentration camps in South Africa (well before the heinous Nazis) and the ancestors of the slave trade. I can't be @rsed reading through the posts, but there was an intimation that I wouldn't be enjoying a comfortable life if not for Britain's Imperialist past. What? The reason I'm not speaking German (as some apologist for the British Empire so eleqouently and succinctly stated) is due to our glorious Empire. Never read such a load of tosh. The reason I'm not speaking German is because of the brave Allied forces fighting facism in the 1940s.
And I don't hide behind anonymity. I'm Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan for 30 years and hater of Imperialism.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

I'm actually staggered by some of the pro-Imperialist bullcrap on here. I was accussed of shedding crocodile tears! Well, tell that to the 1000s of people still affected by the troubles in Northern Ireland (possibly due to the migration of thousands of Scottish Protestants at the turn of the last century! Doh!), the ancestors of the victims of concentration camps in South Africa (well before the heinous Nazis) and the ancestors of the slave trade. I can't be @rsed reading through the posts, but there was an intimation that I wouldn't be enjoying a comfortable life if not for Britain's Imperialist past. What? The reason I'm not speaking German (as some apologist for the British Empire so eleqouently and succinctly stated) is due to our glorious Empire. Never read such a load of tosh. The reason I'm not speaking German is because of the brave Allied forces fighting facism in the 1940s.
And I don't hide behind anonymity. I'm Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan for 30 years and hater of Imperialism.

1. Rob, you live in one of the wealthiest, most economically developed capitalist societies in the world. That society is a product of the historical repression of other nations. Without the British Empire, you wouldn't enjoy the privileges that flow from living in the kind of society you do.

2. If you're labouring under the misapprehension that people are "still affected" by (what you euphemistically refer to as) "the troubles in Northern Ireland" because of "imperialism", then you need to either (a) read around on the theory of imperialism (maybe begin with Lenin), or (b) know little about the history and socioeconomics of Northern Ireland.

(Ps.: I've just "Googled" "Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan" - it produced 468,000 results.)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

I'm actually staggered by some of the pro-Imperialist bullcrap on here. I was accussed of shedding crocodile tears! Well, tell that to the 1000s of people still affected by the troubles in Northern Ireland (possibly due to the migration of thousands of Scottish Protestants at the turn of the last century! Doh!), the ancestors of the victims of concentration camps in South Africa (well before the heinous Nazis) and the ancestors of the slave trade. I can't be @rsed reading through the posts, but there was an intimation that I wouldn't be enjoying a comfortable life if not for Britain's Imperialist past. What? The reason I'm not speaking German (as some apologist for the British Empire so eleqouently and succinctly stated) is due to our glorious Empire. Never read such a load of tosh. The reason I'm not speaking German is because of the brave Allied forces fighting facism in the 1940s.
And I don't hide behind anonymity. I'm Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan for 30 years and hater of Imperialism.

Well said.

we'll let you know
 
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Anonymous

Guest
So, is Morrissey going to engage someone in a debate on the issue, or type up a thoughtful essay to be posted online, so we can judge how much knowledge and wisdom he has concerning the Falkland Islands? No, I don't suppose he will. All he can do is spout simple-minded declarations in a controlled setting, designed to get attention from the press. Hey, he has every right to speak his mind, even if his mind does come up with such idiocy as calling Chinese people a "subspecies".

However, it's silly for him to suggest he speaks for the British people, and I'd think a decent person would prefer that the folks who live on the Falkland Islands be the ones to determine their status.

Also, I realize Morrissey would probably rather die than admit the woman he wanted to see on the guillotine was right about something, but was it really the dream of the "kind people" to go soft in the face of an Argentinian military dictatorship deciding to invade the Falklands in order to divert their own population away from their economic problems and human rights abuses?

And while I absolutely despise royalty, dressing the band up in t-shirts making statements like that looks silly. It makes the band look like Morrissey regards them as nothing more than his puppets on a string. Do they have minds of their own?
 

Bagpuss

New Member
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

1. Rob, you live in one of the wealthiest, most economically developed capitalist societies in the world. That society is a product of the historical repression of other nations. Without the British Empire, you wouldn't enjoy the privileges that flow from living in the kind of society you do.

2. If you're labouring under the misapprehension that people are "still affected" by (what you euphemistically refer to as) "the troubles in Northern Ireland" because of "imperialism", then you need to either (a) read around on the theory of imperialism (maybe begin with Lenin), or (b) know little about the history and socioeconomics of Northern Ireland.

(Ps.: I've just "Googled" "Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan" - it produced 468,000 results.)[/QUOTE

A very articulate and reasoned response but I still vehemently disagree. I'm proud to be British as the next person, but also think we should feel a sense of shame about our imperialistic past. Ireland belongs to the Irish end of. I am fairly well versed on the history of Ireland, but will leave reading Lenin's prose for a weekend when there are no more walls to paint and watch them dry. I have a friend who was part of Thatcher's Task Force to save the Maldives & as soon as they moved into Port Stanley, do you know the squaddies referred to the natives as 'Bennies' (in derisory reference to the character from the much loved soap Crossroads)? They were reprimanded and so resorted to calling them 'Stills' (as in still Bennies). What does that tell us? Not sure. Academics record history, but they very rarely live it.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

1. Rob, you live in one of the wealthiest, most economically developed capitalist societies in the world. That society is a product of the historical repression of other nations. Without the British Empire, you wouldn't enjoy the privileges that flow from living in the kind of society you do.

2. If you're labouring under the misapprehension that people are "still affected" by (what you euphemistically refer to as) "the troubles in Northern Ireland" because of "imperialism", then you need to either (a) read around on the theory of imperialism (maybe begin with Lenin), or (b) know little about the history and socioeconomics of Northern Ireland.

(Ps.: I've just "Googled" "Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan" - it produced 468,000 results.)

A very articulate and reasoned response but I still vehemently disagree. I'm proud to be British as the next person, but also think we should feel a sense of shame about our imperialistic past. Ireland belongs to the Irish end of. I am fairly well versed on the history of Ireland, but will leave reading Lenin's prose for a weekend when there are no more walls to paint and watch them dry. I have a friend who was part of Thatcher's Task Force to save the Maldives & as soon as they moved into Port Stanley, do you know the squaddies referred to the natives as 'Bennies' (in derisory reference to the character from the much loved soap Crossroads)? They were reprimanded and so resorted to calling them 'Stills' (as in still Bennies). What does that tell us? Not sure. Academics record history, but they very rarely live it.

Thank you for the compliment, Rob. I don't have time to reply detail, but in the meantime...

I'm not saying that Britain's imperial history is bathed in glory - very far from it. I'm saying that to criticise the actions of previous generations of Britons in a completely unqualified way is to pretend that current generations of British people don't benefit from what our predecessors did; that's disingenuous.

"Ireland belongs to the Irish end of. I am fairly well versed on the history of Ireland" ... these two sentences are contradictory and, as you said, yourself, "Academics record history, but they very rarely live it."

One other thing - the Maldives?
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

Thank you for the compliment, Rob. I don't have time to reply detail, but in the meantime...

I'm not saying that Britain's imperial history is bathed in glory - very far from it. I'm saying that to criticise the actions of previous generations of Britons in a completely unqualified way is to pretend that current generations of British people don't benefit from what our predecessors did; that's disingenuous.

"Ireland belongs to the Irish end of. I am fairly well versed on the history of Ireland" ... these two sentences are contradictory and, as you said, yourself, "Academics record history, but they very rarely live it."

One other thing - the Maldives?
What is wrong with "Ireland belongs to the Irish"? It's a perfectly legitimate statement isn't it? Doesn't England belong to the English?
 

Peterb

Well-Known Member
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

1. Rob, you live in one of the wealthiest, most economically developed capitalist societies in the world. That society is a product of the historical repression of other nations. Without the British Empire, you wouldn't enjoy the privileges that flow from living in the kind of society you do.

2. If you're labouring under the misapprehension that people are "still affected" by (what you euphemistically refer to as) "the troubles in Northern Ireland" because of "imperialism", then you need to either (a) read around on the theory of imperialism (maybe begin with Lenin), or (b) know little about the history and socioeconomics of Northern Ireland.

(Ps.: I've just "Googled" "Rob Marshall, Morrissey fan" - it produced 468,000 results.)[/QUOTE

A very articulate and reasoned response but I still vehemently disagree. I'm proud to be British as the next person, but also think we should feel a sense of shame about our imperialistic past. Ireland belongs to the Irish end of. I am fairly well versed on the history of Ireland, but will leave reading Lenin's prose for a weekend when there are no more walls to paint and watch them dry. I have a friend who was part of Thatcher's Task Force to save the Maldives & as soon as they moved into Port Stanley, do you know the squaddies referred to the natives as 'Bennies' (in derisory reference to the character from the much loved soap Crossroads)? They were reprimanded and so resorted to calling them 'Stills' (as in still Bennies). What does that tell us? Not sure. Academics record history, but they very rarely live it.
Hey Bagpuss, I agree with all the points made in your previous 2 posts. (Don't worry about the 'Maldives' mistake. It's all too easy to make these errors and your main point was made).
One point I would want to expand upon though is being proud of being British. I'm not saying I'm ashamed of it but how can one feel proud when you have no choice in the matter and anyway, what is 'British'? Is it the soil, the people, the insititutions, the government? Nationalism/patriotism makes no sense to me. Why be proud of an arbitrary concept such as a country? Your thoughts?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Re: Article: "Divided Britain: What Morrissey's stance on the Falklands tells us abou

What is wrong with "Ireland belongs to the Irish"? It's a perfectly legitimate statement isn't it? Doesn't England belong to the English?

No, Peter, it isn't "a perfectly legitimate statement". Did you miss Morrissey making an arse of himself on the subject last summer? It was debated ad nauseum on here at the time, so I don't really want to re-open the discussion and derail this thread any further. However, what's "wrong with" that statement is that it's ... well ... wrong (and - to put it politely - more than a little offensive). I dunno if you noticed, but between the 1960s and 1990s there was a paramilitary conflict in Northern Ireland over precisely this question, in the process of which, more than three-and-a-half thousand people were killed. It was on the news a couple of times, so I'm sure you must've seen something. The Republic of Ireland is Irish; Northern Ireland is Northern Irish and British (just as people from England are English and British). Politically, legally, socially and in ethno-religious terms, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are separate entities and the vast majority of Northern Irish people who live there - around 73%, according to research conducted in 2010 - have no wish for that to change.
 

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