Morrissey A-Z: "America Is Not the World"

Ketamine Sun

A Most Misunderstood Member
Such a weak effort. It made me question Morrissey's taste and judgement on this album, especially after he had seven years to work on quality stuff. I suppose we can always hearken back to those heady days of Dagenham Dave for lyrical sophistication.

Come on everybody now -

Dagenham Dave, Dagenham Dave
Oh, Dagenham Dave
Dagenham Dave, Dagenham Dave
Oh, Dagenham Dave

MrShoes
The repetition of the lyric Dagenham Dave by Morrissey always makes me think of
Marc Bolan’s song ‘Debora’ that we can be sure he knows by heart ....


Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb

Oh Debora, always look like a zebra
Your sunken face is like a galleon
Clawed with mysteries of the Spanish Main, oh Debora ...”

:cool:
 

Wozzles

Member
The repetition of the lyric Dagenham Dave by Morrissey always makes me think of
Marc Bolan’s song ‘Debora’ that we can be sure he knows by heart ....


Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb

Oh Debora, always look like a zebra
Your sunken face is like a galleon
Clawed with mysteries of the Spanish Main, oh Debora ...”

:cool:
my favorite
 

marred

Member
Almost no one supports open borders, his ideas about cultures retaining their identity fits anti-colonialism, his objections to Islamic extremism are about homophobia, feminism & animal welfare (for over 15 years he blamed American foreign policy like every other leftie).

He got into trouble because he's older, likes to make acidic remarks & appears to get his information from the internet, books & gossip.

I doubt he regrets that song.
I think you could make your argument fit anything you want it to. Morrissey's statements against the Manchester bombing had nothing to do with Islam's homophobia. Every democrat presidential nominee bar Tulsi Gabbard raised their hand in affirmation when asked the question do you support open borders.

So this forum now thinks Morrissey is a far right leftie? It's hard to keep up.
 

Nerak

Reverse Ferret
I think you could make your argument fit anything you want it to. Morrissey's statements against the Manchester bombing had nothing to do with Islam's homophobia. Every democrat presidential nominee bar Tulsi Gabbard raised their hand in affirmation when asked the question do you support open borders.

So this forum now thinks Morrissey is a far right leftie? It's hard to keep up.

Morrissey's facebook post on the Manchester bombing didn't get into the details of why he opposed Islamic State - he was denouncing the UK state for not doing enough to stop it & a public inquiry turned up failings in policing & in intel, which includes not keeping a close enough eye on people who had been training abroad.

People jumped on the word 'immigration' & read their own culture war opinions into - he's not in the culture war. He's doesn't interact online & you have to interact online in order to know the correct way to express your opinions this second.

He made it clear after the Orlando shooting that religious homophobia was an issue (& it chimes with his remarks about all organised religion) - he also made it clear that he didn't think religions should be allowed a veto over animal welfare or over things that impact women like fgm... Unlike the far right who USE these issues - he's had a long-standing interest in them.

Open borders mean no borders - not lifting whole country bans on entry.

& he doesn't even like strict border controls, he'd just like them to keep out actual dangers, not harass people - this was him in 2016:

It doesn’t take much to be thrown into a cell at LAX! You will notice that the Immigration Officers are persistently ordering you to ‘stand there’, which is a test to see if you will bow to their orders. If you say — as I did — ‘No. I’m perfectly OK where I am’, then they throw you into a cell for three hours because you are not frightened of them. They went through my belongings and took $150 out of my wallet; they kept the money and said ‘This is what saying ‘No’ has cost you’ — which of course was illegal on their part. But they can be as illegal as they wish. Incidentally, when I arrived in Sydney last year the officer at Passport Control did her best to insult me and to cause a scene when there was no need. I refused to take the bait because she was so rude, and so she threw my passport at me and looked away in disgust! I thought, ‘Wow, welcome to Australia!’ They use the ISIS issue as an excuse to denigrate everyone, and they absolutely love it.


Personally I think he's just a muddled leftie who doesn't follow fashion.
 
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ThePoliticalRevolution

Well-Known Member
Morrissey's facebook post on the Manchester bombing didn't get into the details of why he opposed Islamic State - he was denouncing the UK state for not doing enough to stop it & a public inquiry turned up failings in policing & in intel, which includes not keeping a close enough eye on people who had been training abroad.

People jumped on the word 'immigration' & read their own culture war opinions into - he's not in the culture war. He's doesn't interact online & you have to interact online in order to know the correct way to express your opinions this second.

He made it clear after that Orlando shooting that religious homophobia was an issue (& it chimes with his remarks about all organised religion) - he also made it clear that he didn't think religions should be allowed a veto over animal welfare or over things that impact women like fgm... Unlike the far right who USE these issues - he's had a long-standing interest in them.

Open borders mean no borders - not lifting whole country bans on entry.

& he doesn't even like strict border controls, he'd just like them to keep out actual dangers, not harass people - this was him in 2016:

It doesn’t take much to be thrown into a cell at LAX! You will notice that the Immigration Officers are persistently ordering you to ‘stand there’, which is a test to see if you will bow to their orders. If you say — as I did — ‘No. I’m perfectly OK where I am’, then they throw you into a cell for three hours because you are not frightened of them. They went through my belongings and took $150 out of my wallet; they kept the money and said ‘This is what saying ‘No’ has cost you’ — which of course was illegal on their part. But they can be as illegal as they wish. Incidentally, when I arrived in Sydney last year the officer at Passport Control did her best to insult me and to cause a scene when there was no need. I refused to take the bait because she was so rude, and so she threw my passport at me and looked away in disgust! I thought, ‘Wow, welcome to Australia!’ They use the ISIS issue as an excuse to denigrate everyone, and they absolutely love it.


Personally I think he's just a muddled leftie who doesn't follow fashion.

lol good post karen
 
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Yeah agree, it was just nice to hear something new again. And M knew that, so he thought he would throw us (gift us with?) the curve ball that was “America Is Not The World”. It wasn’t foul nor was it a strike against him in my book.


:cool:



“presidents come, presidents go...”

Come to think of it, Christy Moore did a nice version of it.
To me, Wild T, this is one of the better covers of a Moz song.

 

AztecCamera

Well-Known Member
I reckon this "song" written by one of the California Son's teammates from his high school basketball team at Hollywood High is still doing what it is was supposed to do back in 2004 KEEP FOREIGNERS BUYING MERCH AND PRAYING CALIFORNIA'S SON WILL COME TO THEIR BACKWARDS SHIT HOLE COUNTRY IN 6 YEARS. In 2004 the California Son's popularity in the USA, was at an all time low and he had to do what he hates doing...tour foreign countries, especially Brittin. Something had to be done to keep the money flow coming in, and this "song" was it. He only sang it live for one year because he didn't even write the lyrics c*** tit twat fek'll northern base winding it up lock nest monster inn n nn nn nn nn n nn n it.

Fark Arse
 

The.Truth.

Well-Known Member
I love this song. If this was the only type of thing he ever did I might not have become a fan but it stands in contrast to his best work, AND you have to give him a lot of credit for putting it on his comeback album, a record loaded with hits, especially when you look at some of the seemingly obviously much better songs that he could have put in its place. The decision to put this on the record was either brave or foolish.
 

born to mourn and yawn

Well-Known Member
The song makes sense when you acknowledge the love-hate sentiment. I think someone mentioned that before.

I imagine the voice to be a person from Estonia, someone who grew up (or was influenced by people who grew up) in the Eastern bloc during the Cold War. The language kind of reflects the coarseness of all ideological thinking ("fat pigs").

Here it is mixed with curiosity that has already turned into affection sort of. I guess that gay people who grew up in the East had a hard time finding love, so America is also a promise for this person, maybe a teenager, carried away by phantasies of being loved for what s/he is after all, but who is also feeling kind of disgusted seeing all the signs of American global capitalism, like MacDonalds and stuff, conquering his/her native country, which has turned into just another "opened market" for american products to be sold.

For most Eastern people, the collapse of the Eastern bloc meant that they had to carve out a new identity for themselves, being "the loser" of the Cold War didn't make it any easier. Many failed or became seriously ill, suffering from schizophrenic fits, because they couldnt reconcile the differences of the clashing world views, especially when they had been in their early 20s, which means they had achieved something in the old system (which was suddenly worth nothing at all) but not enough yet, to form a solid sense of their own identity. I think the majority simply denounced their past, even felt ashamed for it, and adopted the western values as fast as possible ("I love you" repeated like a mantra).

I think this song captures this search for a new identity quite well.
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
The repetition of the lyric Dagenham Dave by Morrissey always makes me think of
Marc Bolan’s song ‘Debora’ that we can be sure he knows by heart ....


Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb
Deboree-deb n' deboree-de-bree-deb

Oh Debora, always look like a zebra
Your sunken face is like a galleon
Clawed with mysteries of the Spanish Main, oh Debora ...”

:cool:

Marc Bolan had that surreal and repetitive style in many songs and a very playful use of language, and very often playing with the sound of the words and a rhyming slang of his own.

I think the song by Morrissey is quite different, even if he obviously loves Bolan, but he doesn't really follow his style when it comes to writing songs (Morrissey is not really surreal and he doesn't seem to enjoy those crazy rhymes for his own songs)

... But Dagenham Dave is truly one of his greatest lyrics! I think the reference to the song by The Stranglers is not a coincidence.
Morrissey managed to create a very touchable description of the character in just 5 or 6 verses and then he goes "I could say more, but you get the general idea"... and there is no need to increase the description, the arrogance of this "Dave" is explained by singing his name again and again.

Anyway, it is a marvelous song... it is giving an alternative point of view about a character described by another song, and the objections are expressed in just 5 or 6 verses, that manage to create a very solid description of the character.
 

MrShoes

The Courage to Get on People's Tits!
Subscriber
Marc Bolan had that surreal and repetitive style in many songs and a very playful use of language, and very often playing with the sound of the words and a rhyming slang of his own.

I think the song by Morrissey is quite different, even if he obviously loves Bolan, but he doesn't really follow his style when it comes to writing songs (Morrissey is not really surreal and he doesn't seem to enjoy those crazy rhymes for his own songs)

... But Dagenham Dave is truly one of his greatest lyrics! I think the reference to the song by The Stranglers is not a coincidence.
Morrissey managed to create a very touchable description of the character in just 5 or 6 verses and then he goes "I could say more, but you get the general idea"... and there is no need to increase the description, the arrogance of this "Dave" is explained by singing his name again and again.

Anyway, it is a marvelous song... it is giving an alternative point of view about a character described by another song, and the objections are expressed in just 5 or 6 verses, that manage to create a very solid description of the character.

I am sure I am not the only one that would say, to call this song marvelous is being generous. As evidenced in this thread with the Song "America...." -- everyone of us here has a Moz song that we dig more than the general population.

As you mentioned, the line "I could say more, but you get the general idea"... is classic.

MrShoes
 

Oh my

Enough! or Too much
I am sure I am not the only one that would say, to call this song marvelous is being generous. As evidenced in this thread with the Song "America...." -- everyone of us here has a Moz song that we dig more than the general population.

As you mentioned, the line "I could say more, but you get the general idea"... is classic.

MrShoes

Yes, that line is a classic... almost a statement. He found a way to perfectly describe a character in 5 verses and then he states that he could have written extra verses, but there is no need to do it. I can't dislike it.

The only song I don't like is the one with the Green Day singer (I dislike it so much that I can't even remember the name, I always skip it).
 

SuedeMoz

Well-Known Member
Morrissey's take on the post-9/11 Bush era... while the lyrics can be a bit trite I liked it.

I love the poignant way he sings:

Steely-blue eyes with no love in them
Scan The World
And a humourless smile
With no warmth within
Greets the world
 
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