What do you think (re: Jesse)

Ryan

Moderator
Moderator
Subscriber
Is the real reason that Moz keeps him with the band despite all the criticism Mr Tobias cops?

It reminds me of Jason Cooper as The Cure's drummer. He's been the drummer since 1997 but people still want him gone, though I reckon he sounds fine. What do you think the real, main reason is?

And yes, I expect plenty of "because he can't play for shit" responses, which I don't agree with. See: Smiler With Knife.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I don't play guitar so I can't fairly criticize his ability to play guitar. However, I do have ears and my issue with him is his tone. His guitar, his gear and whatever it is set to is generally not pleasant to my ear. Listen to the Moz albums he plays on with headphones and the difference between him and Boz is audible. Hint: the jagged, abrasive, metal-ish part is Jesse. Marr, Riley and Whyte, all pleasant tone even in RAWK mode.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Likely possibilities:
1) Moz likes/fancies him as a person.
2) It's been established that Morrissey's hearing is going, so this may be one reason it all sounds 'good' to him, as long as it's loud.
3) Morrissey has very strange musical tastes, and what most people hear as ugly guitar tones are to him soothing notes of bliss.
4) He's cheap, and obeys his Lordship's commands without question, as all good hench-musicians should. The minute he develops his own opinions his ass will be out of the door.

Probably a mixture of all of these, I guess.
 

123xyz

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
I haven't ever , for a single moment , understood the disdain for Jesse. For all the cries of "... he's a shit guitarist..." , there seldom seems to be much evidence forthcoming to support this.

He's hardly mangling chords or playing out of tune on a regular basis. I sometimes wonder to what extent Jesse's somewhat reserved/taciturn/grim-faced stage demeanour may contribute to this attitude towards him , particularly as he replaced a more animated and fondly familiar figure in Alain Whyte ...
 
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Anonymous

Guest
No, he doesn't mangle chords, but he doesn't really measure up to the footsteps he's following in either. He's just not technically as good as a player or a writer.
 

mcrickson

Reckless Endangerment
I take Morrissey on his word at this - in an interview for "Tormentors," he said that he admired Jesse because he believes Jesse has a strong sense of pop melody and a very visceral playing style. Personally, I think "I'm Not A Man" (the verse music in particular) is prime example of how Jesse has grown melodically while playing with Morrissey.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I haven't ever , for a single moment , understood the disdain for Jesse. For all the cries of "... he's a shit guitarist..." , there seldom seems to be much evidence forthcoming to support this.

He's hardly mangling chords or playing out of tune on a regular basis. I sometimes wonder to what extent Jesse's somewhat reserved/taciturn/grim-faced stage demeanour may contribute to this attitude towards him , particularly as he replaced a more animated and fondly familiar figure in Alain Whyte ...

i think this is the main offender, that he replaced alain. also this"3) Morrissey has very strange *(not strange to me)* musical tastes, and what most people hear as ugly guitar tones are to him soothing notes of bliss." which is also part of i think then whole dislike of "world music" influence" and those who just want to hear more and more english guitar pop even though they dont admit it. i think his songwriting was some of the highlights on world peace for me. im not a man, kiss me a lot (which ended up as a single and often considered the catchiest song on the album) and smiler with knife. i think those were his contributions and to me thats pretty good
 

Velvis

Not a beginner
Before the Jesse haters start I'd better get my 2 cents worth in.

Jesse gets better and better, he fits the current band perfectly.

His writing gets stronger and stronger too.

To criticise him for being a 'yes' man is a bit silly, that would surely apply to the whole band. We know what happens when they step out of line...

I'm also a musician and take it from me he's a great guitarist!
 

Chip

Member
To be perfectly honest, off of the this board I've never really encountered a tremendous amount of disdain for Jesse Tobias. Morrissey fans I've known in real life have never complained about him or have some somewhat positive things about them. When I tell people how there is a pack of people online who despise him, think he is a terrible guitar player, want to drive him out of the band, etc. they are usually rather perplexed. He got caught a bit of applause when I saw him introduced in DC.
 

Maurice E Maher

Well-Known Member
Before World Peace I had him down as a reasonable guitarist but a not-very-good songwriter.
However, his songwriting contributions to the last album were fantastic especially I'm Not A Man and the sublime Smiler With Knife. Credit where it's due (and all).
 

Famous when dead

Vulgarian
Moderator
Agree with Chip.
Only this focused ray of hate seems to shred him to bits.
His peers accept him, Moz accepts him, the producers/studio et al too.
All better placed to 'judge' his musicianship.
He is often, I think, used as a whipping boy when Morrissey releases songs that don't fit the entitled thinker's expectations.
Regards,
FWD
 
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Maurice E Maher

Well-Known Member
My explanation: People dislike him, because he is not Johnny Marr.

The biggest irony of all, perhaps, is that Jesse's compositions on World Peace are musically miles more imaginative, melodic and diverse than anything Marr wrote on his latest album. Who saw that coming!
 
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Anonymouswithapologies

Guest
The biggest irony of all, perhaps, is that Jesse's compositions on World Peace are musically miles more imaginative, melodic and diverse than anything Marr wrote on his latest album. Who saw that coming!


i would use excerpt from your post for MY MESSAGE TO TYNAMUNA: Dear Tynamuna, this is why I think 'World Peace' is remarkable:


"compositions on World Peace are musically miles more imaginative, melodic and diverse" :love:




p.s. idea of comparing johnny marr with jesse tobias is absurd.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Jesse is - at best - horrendously average, and his tone sucks. He also often butchers Smiths songs.
Alain was not a particularly good musician either, but most of us forgave him due to his crucial position as Morrissey's main song-writer, where he excelled.

It does seem odd, that with his pick of pretty much anyone to work with, Morrissey seems unable to find a real replacement for Marr: ie, someone who is both an amazing guitarist AND can write great songs.

Morrissey should be working with the best, but he seems quite happy to settle for pub band musicians, just as long as he likes how they look.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
The biggest irony of all, perhaps, is that Jesse's compositions on World Peace are musically miles more imaginative, melodic and diverse than anything Marr wrote on his latest album. Who saw that coming!

lmao bitch you know that's a lie! and i say this as someone who isn't a fan of Marr's latest album
 

marred

Member
I'd say once all the Jesse bashers get lives we will hear less from them.
 
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