An REM thread for r.e.m. stuff

They are the exact same recording except 7" was mixed by Hibtone and the Eponymous version was mixed by Easter. They are in fact the same tracks but slightly different mix by different people.

Totally agree. Same RECORDING (from April 15, 1981 I assume), but different MIXES.

http://www.remtimeline.com/1981.html
June 1981 - Bombay Recording Studios, Symrna, GA
notes: The band return to Bombay Recording Studios with Johnny Hibbert. They bring with them the two versions of 'Radio Free Europe', the one mixed by Johnny Hibbert, and the other mixed by Mitch Easter, and use the studio to decide which one to put on the Hib-Tone Records single. Hibbert's mix wins and can be found on the original Hib-Tone Records single. Easter's mix can be found on the 'Eponymous' compilation album.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spin.com/2011/10/rems-1981-cassette-demo-surfaces-online?amp=1
R.E.M.’s debut 7″ single release of “Radio Free Europe”/”Sitting Still” later that year on Hib-Tone Records was based on these demo versions, but added overdubs and notoriously band-hated mixing work by label chief Johnny Hibbert. Easter’s mix of the post-overdub “Radio Free Europe” has since appeared on the R.E.M. compilations Eponymous (1988)
 
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What are the differences between the single and Eponymous mixes? A couple different users listened to my rip and seemed to agree they were the same. Looking at my old posts, this was in Jan of 2018

Ok... I just spent 3+ hrs DEEPLY comparing MY PERSONAL Hib-Tone 45 (ripped to .wav), the Eponymous CD version, and just for fun, the "Cassette Set" version of Radio Free Europe.
This is something I've wanted to do for years!

I put them all into Cool Edit Pro as 3 separate tracks in a multi-track recording so I could isolate each as needed and listen to super short loops over and over again. I got some really good headphones and went to work...

I CAN FIND ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE HIB-TONE 45 AND THE EPONYMOUS VERSION!!!

I (going off the information of many books) have been WRONG for a long while.
I ALWAYS thought the Hib-Tone and the Eponymous versions were different!

I am NOT saying that there ISN'T a "Mitch Easter mix" out there somewhere (in contrast to the "Johnny Hibbert" one), because that has been documented in books and internet (see my links in earlier posts). From them debating which version to put on the hib-tone single and Johnny Hibbert "winning out", to someone else asking Easter to autograph their hib-tone single and him telling them "you know I didn't make this".
Maybe those stories ARE all true, but in my opinion "Mitch Easter's mix" is NOT on Eponymous.
Or anything else that I own...

I sure can't find/hear any difference!

Tony Fletcher in "Remarks" does say "Hibberts input is hard to quantify. Various tapes of the Drive-In recordings do not clarify what was done before Hibbert's appearance and what was added afterwards."
https://books.google.com/books?id=JmLQQFIEjtAC&pg=PT68&lpg=PT68&dq=differences+in+Johnny+hibbert+and+Mitch+Easter+mixes&source=bl&ots=FO_fwDnwOn&sig=ACfU3U0f2z6TpghEV8sAGgoIGeyYmjc_UA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC4eb1_vnfAhUCr1kKHWReBo0Q6AEwE3oECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=differences in Johnny hibbert and Mitch Easter mixes&f=false

Also in Gary Nabors 1st pressing of "Remnants: The REM collectors handbook" on pg 64-65, he says about Eponymous, "The major selling point of the album was the inclusion of the original Hib-Tone version of 'Radio Free Europe' (though this time it was the brighter Mitch Easter mix of the track that was released, and not Hibbert's mix)."
This was published in 1993 BEFORE any "internet confusion" would have skewed his statement.

But I sure can't hear it!

The liner notes of Eponymous saying that version is the "original Hib-Tone single" seems totally CORRECT to me. I am happy that they are "right" after thinking they were wrong for so long (since at least 1993).


OTHER FINDINGS FROM THE COMPARISON:

Both the Eponymous and Hib-Tone tracks have a super small drop out on the left channel of the opening sound effect 0.35sec after the start. It sticks out like a sore thumb when you look at the .wav file in an editor. Further proving that part at least is identical...

Hib-Tone version is 0.7sec longer/slower than Eponymous version. But that most likely is due to my turntable speed. The weird thing was that the Cassette Set version was the EXACT same length as the my Hib-Tone though... (taking in to account no "sound effects" at the beginning of cassette set) You would think variances in cassette tape speeds compiled with turntable speeds would have made that very unlikely wouldn't it?

In general the Cassette Set version has less overdubs and echo by far and is much "cleaner" sounding. BUT what's really weird is that for it to supposedly be the "raw original stripped version" that got used on their demo tapes, there is a very obvious HEAVY overdub/echo/production on the very first word of the song ("Decide") on the Cassette Set version that is NOT on the Hib-Tone/Eponymous version! So strange... You'd think it would be the other way around.

Right before the "Straight of the boat" pre-chorus on the Hib-Tone/Eponymous version there are 2 "tick" mouth sounds. I can't tell if these are someone "counting off" to the chorus or what, but the Cassette Set version is missing the 2nd sound that is there ~1:10~1:11 on my Hib-tone/Eponymous versions.

This happens again before the 2nd "Radio Station" (still not sure if that's what Stipe is saying) pre-chorus. The Hib-Tone/Eponymous has ONE of these "tick" mouth sounds, and the Cassette Set version has NONE.

Right around 2:56 the Hib-Tone/Eponymous version has a very obvious tambourine hit right before the "Straight of the boat" pre-chorus. The Cassette Set version does NOT have this at all.


I feel like what we know as the Cassette Set version is maybe the one that people have referred to as the "Mitch Easter mix" in books,etc??
Johnny Hibbert wasn't even around when it was recorded, so he shouldn't have had any influence over it, and it does seem much cleaner and brighter than the others. These authors have just all been wrong to say that it is what's on Eponymous, though.

I sure wish I could ask these authors and Johnny Hibbert and Mitch Easter and anyone else(!) to tell me what they hear differently! But as I said earlier, as far as I am concerned the Radio Free Europe Hib-Tone 45 and the version on Eponymous ARE THE SAME! Period!! Done!

Now time to compare "SITTING STILL" !

UPDATE 3/11/2019:
I threw the RFE from the "And I feel fine... IRS Years" (Disc 2) into the multi-track comparison as well, and although the amplitude/levels are higher, it is an exact "thumbprint" match to the Eponymous version when you look at the .wav file. Once I got the levels the same I could jump between them and tell absolutely NO DIFFERENCE that I was even flipping back and forth. EXACT SAME.
 
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Whoa. That’s a really in depth look. I was legitimately curious to see/hear what I’d been missing and I’m glad I’m not crazy! Thanks for doing a deep dive.
 
Thanks for the in-depth look, Driver8! Very much appreciated!

I always thought the opposite: that the Hib-Tone version we all know would be Mitch Easter's mix. Since the band didn't like Hibbert's version at all, it wouldn't make sense to include it on Eponymous, now would it? So they included the second pressing of the single, meaning Easter's mix, and the Hibbert mix would be a mystery so far. I don't have any actual grounds for thinking that, just some apparent simple logic probably without logic.
 
So they included the second pressing of the single, meaning Easter's mix, and the Hibbert mix would be a mystery so far.

Wait, what?? Are you saying the 2nd pressings of the Hib-Tone single (with the address on them) are a DIFFERENT mix than the 1st pressings??
I've NEVER read/heard that before....
 
Superb investigation and thanks for sharing. My primary musical interest is U2 and www.u2songs.com is an essential resource for collectors. Their work is often similar to yours above. Although REM have been a huge part of my life, they are my 'second love' and my knowledge is in line with that. But if anyone ever has the inclination to do an REM 'u2songs' discography, I'd be more than happy to row in. I can measure silence and run the spec analyses with the best of them.
 
Wait, what?? Are you saying the 2nd pressings of the Hib-Tone single (with the address on them) are a DIFFERENT mix than the 1st pressings??
I've NEVER read/heard that before....

That's what I remember reading. But don't quote me on that, cause I go around reading everything and can never remember the sources.

I don't know the physical differences between pressings (yes, there's something about an address), but, as far as I can remember, the first pressing is quite rare and most people have the Easter version -- and that's probably why that and the Eponymous version are the same. It's supposedly quite difficult to find the first pressing with Hibbert's version, since few were made and fewer were distributed, as the band hated it. Again, don't quote me on that! That could easily be wrong!
 
Here is the story I referred to about someone getting Easter to autograph their Hib-Tone 45. It was a comment on a YouTube "video" of supposedly RFE Hib-Tone.

20190310_231824.jpg

Here's the link to the story he refers to.
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/rem-radio-free-europe-classic-tracks

This story ALSO "perpetuates" the idea that the Hib-Tone single and Eponymous versions are different...!?!
Who knows if they ever actually listened to both though? Or are just repeating the story like I always did... :confused:
I have a hard time believing so many articles are wrong.
I just know what my ears hear/heard during my comparison.
 
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And that is pretty much why I never knew which is which... :blushing:

I'm sure I read those two articles before -- actually, I used to follow the blog TPOITrucking in RSS years ago because the guy loves R.E.M. and would publish some great reworkings of their material.

What I got from all the reading was that: Hibbert's version exists and I probably don't know it (1000 copies were made and just published that way); the more known first mix would be Easter's, same as in Eponymous (the band liked it better, so apparently that's what they would divulge); and then there is the Murmur version.

Or maybe it's the other way around, and the version we came to know is Hibbert's, while Easter's was never revealed?
 
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What I got from all the reading was that: Hibbert's version exists and I probably don't know it (1000 copies were made and just published that way); the more known first mix would be Easter's, same as in Eponymous (the band liked it better, so apparently that's what they would divulge); and then there is the Murmur version.

Or maybe it's the other way around, and the version we came to know is Hibbert's, while Easter's was never revealed?

I agree. We've either NEVER heard Hibbert's mix or NEVER heard Easter's mix. Cause everything we HAVE heard (labeled as Hib-Tone) is the SAME.
OR there's so little difference no one can tell... ;)

I do have an email out to a guy that says he has a 1st pressing AND a 2nd of the Hib-Tone. I'll let you know if he replies...
But the looking around I did about it after your post found nothing to confirm that they are different. Everything just said the label (with or without address is the only difference).
 
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I was half joking when I suggested that the first press and second press might have different mixes. I really wish I had a first press to compare to now...

I found one once at Wuxtry in athens but it was much more than I wanted to spend.
 
Does anyone happen to have a copy of the Personal Fest show from 2008? There was a great quality pro-shot and soundboard going around, and I managed to lose both!
 
@gargumma,

Is there any chance you could reupload the FLAC version of 'Out of Time Deluxe disc 3 Live at Mountain Stage'?

(I used to post on this thread as Klang a few years ago, but I can't remember my password.... hence I'm now FormerlyKlang :lbf:)
 
@gargumma,

Is there any chance you could reupload the FLAC version of 'Out of Time Deluxe disc 3 Live at Mountain Stage'?

(I used to post on this thread as Klang a few years ago, but I can't remember my password.... hence I'm now FormerlyKlang :lbf:)

You caught me at the exact time on the exact day! I was just messing with my collection after a couple of months away when I saw your message.

Here it is, Klang-not-Klang: http://www.mediafire.com/file/4x2xnz8864e3efa/Bonus_CD_%28Live_At_Mountain_Stage%29.rar/file

(and your password was melovesstipe)
 
You caught me at the exact time on the exact day! I was just messing with my collection after a couple of months away when I saw your message.

Here it is, Klang-not-Klang: http://www.mediafire.com/file/4x2xnz8864e3efa/Bonus_CD_%28Live_At_Mountain_Stage%29.rar/file

(and your password was melovesstipe)

@ gargumma You sir are still an absolute star, thank you. :):thumb:

I’m in the same boat as you… except I haven’t touched my R.E.M. library for nearly 3 years, literally just updating, organising and tidying it up whilst simultaneous realising (like the 3rd CD from the Out Of Time deluxe edition) that there’s a few glaring omissions from recent reissues.

But again, thank you for taking the time to upload it, I really appreciate it. :D

Also to newer folk or those that might be interested, the FLAC copy of a 1991 Italian bootleg CD, titled 'R.E.M. - Philadelphia 1984', that I uploaded way back in 2013 can still be downloaded.

I encoded it myself from the CD, including log, it's not soundboard quality, but it's not bad either and it's still an interesting curiosity all the same. I've also uploaded 300dpi scans of the artwork & the CD, I've not had chance to tidy them up myself, but they're there if anyone wants to download them.

Tracklist:

1. Radio Free Europe
2. Hyena
3. Letter Never Sent
4. Camera
5. Gardening At Night
6. 9-9
7. Windout
8. Don't Go Back To Rockville
9. So. Central Rain
10. Little America
11. Second Guessing
12. Talk About The Passion
13. Wolves, Lower
14. Moon River
15. Ghost Riders In The Sky
16. There She Goes Again
17. We Walk


Part 1
http://www.mediafire.com/?sv8yhzoswoed441

Part 2
http://www.mediafire.com/?n3d2rbd537lbxqx

Artwork
http://www.mediafire.com/?c5fe2kosn48a67b
 
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/rem-radio-free-europe-classic-tracks

This story ALSO "perpetuates" the idea that the Hib-Tone single and Eponymous versions are different...!?!
Who knows if they ever actually listened to both though? Or are just repeating the story like I always did... :confused:
I have a hard time believing so many articles are wrong.
I just know what my ears hear/heard during my comparison.

That article also refers to RFE as a "minor-key jangle", when there are in fact, no minor chords apart from a C#m in the brief middle eight, and that part doesn't "jangle", dammit! :)
 
Did anyone pick up the Bingo Hand Job record for RSD? A friend grabbed one for me but I haven’t seen him yet to get it. Wondering folks’ thoughts. Also wondering if anyone has ripped it, I’m curious to hear if/how it’s different than the circulating boots
 
Damn. a friend told me that was the case, seemed maybe cleaned up a little bit? Was hoping someone here might have some more insight.

Does anyone know if they ever had a board recording of the whole show? Some pro recordings are on OOT-era singles, so they at least got some of it.
 
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