"Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creates"
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Skylarker
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Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
In the midst of this topic, which I could literally go on for hours about (I'll spare you) all I'll say is that one important distinction between Morrissey's revisionism and that of Lucas is that Lucas actually comes right out and says that all the myriad changes he's made to his films over the years represent how he always wanted the movies to be the first time around, but couldn't due to shortcomings with budget, technology, etc.
He claims that the original versions of the films were unfinished works in progress and that as he tweaks each one into infinity, they get closer to the versions he'd always envisioned since Day 1.
Morrissey doesn't do that. His revisionism is, or can be, just as baffling and just as unnecessary, but he never claims that his reissues are the way the albums should have been heard in the first place. At least, as far as I know.
My impression of his mindset regarding the remaster/reissues is that he sees it as a "that was then, this is now" kind of thing...he saw the records one way originally and now he sees them differently. He doesn't try to pretend that in 1988 he'd never actually wanted The Ordinary Boys on his debut, it's just that the song fell out of favor with him over the years. And, inversely, a song he once deemed throwaway seems to him now, in hindsight, to have been something worthwhile that he gave up too quickly on.
Remember, Lucas said "in 100 years all the film reels will have decayed and the only version of Star Wars will be my 21st century DVD ones. No one will know any better." He actually spoke those words, or a very close approximation thereof.
Morrissey isn't that denial-ridden. He sees the records as living things, and living things grow and change with time. That's all.
In the midst of this topic, which I could literally go on for hours about (I'll spare you) all I'll say is that one important distinction between Morrissey's revisionism and that of Lucas is that Lucas actually comes right out and says that all the myriad changes he's made to his films over the years represent how he always wanted the movies to be the first time around, but couldn't due to shortcomings with budget, technology, etc.
He claims that the original versions of the films were unfinished works in progress and that as he tweaks each one into infinity, they get closer to the versions he'd always envisioned since Day 1.
Morrissey doesn't do that. His revisionism is, or can be, just as baffling and just as unnecessary, but he never claims that his reissues are the way the albums should have been heard in the first place. At least, as far as I know.
My impression of his mindset regarding the remaster/reissues is that he sees it as a "that was then, this is now" kind of thing...he saw the records one way originally and now he sees them differently. He doesn't try to pretend that in 1988 he'd never actually wanted The Ordinary Boys on his debut, it's just that the song fell out of favor with him over the years. And, inversely, a song he once deemed throwaway seems to him now, in hindsight, to have been something worthwhile that he gave up too quickly on.
Remember, Lucas said "in 100 years all the film reels will have decayed and the only version of Star Wars will be my 21st century DVD ones. No one will know any better." He actually spoke those words, or a very close approximation thereof.
Morrissey isn't that denial-ridden. He sees the records as living things, and living things grow and change with time. That's all.
S
Skylarker
Guest
Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
Yes and I understand the ire of the purists, however, it bugs me when they get super-anal and pissed about it.
I mean, A) the original versions still exist, and
B) it is the artist's work to change if and how he pleases.
If you don't agree with the changes, see point A.
Having said that, Lucas is a cock for what he did to his legacy. Morrissey, on the other hand, is still OK in my book.
Yes and I understand the ire of the purists, however, it bugs me when they get super-anal and pissed about it.
I mean, A) the original versions still exist, and
B) it is the artist's work to change if and how he pleases.
If you don't agree with the changes, see point A.
Having said that, Lucas is a cock for what he did to his legacy. Morrissey, on the other hand, is still OK in my book.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
It's a big topic with plenty to explore. One conclusion to which I always seem to return is this: when artists seem to hurt their work when they revise and re-release it, they're reminding us-- whether they're doing it deliberately or not, it doesn't matter-- that we are re-consuming old material, which might lead us to ask why exactly we're doing that. Yes, Morrissey botched the re-release of "Viva Hate". But why should it matter to us? My 1988 copy of "Viva Hate" didn't blow up suddenly and vanish in the wind. I've still got it. Similarly, anyone who says George Lucas "raped their childhood" (a tired meme which goes back to the late 90s) should stop and realize that the anger they feel probably indicates they're still trapped in their childhood. In short, it's worth remembering that all of these revisions and re-releases are nothing more than attempts to make us buy what we've already bought. Isn't that the real problem here? Morrissey's bad choices at least had the merit of making me ask myself, "Why would I want to buy 'Viva Hate' again, even if he had done it right?"
My husband is a huge Sci-Fi Geek, and he had forwarded me this article a few weeks ago. It deals with the extreme sense of outrage many die-hard Star Wars fans (I'm not one of them, myself) had when George Lucas decided to change a key scene in the first "Star Wars" film upon its re-release in 1997. I had it in my Bookmarks, and I re-read it today in between doing work. I thought it would be relevant to post here in light of the Viva Hate remaster, with The Ordinary Boys removed, and LNMS edited. And there was a lesser degree of outrage, but still a good amount of it, with Maladjusted losing two of its songs on its re-issue in 2009.
Obviously, being a filmmaker of a multi-million dollar franchise and being an indie pop star(albeit one with a huge cult following) are very different things, and I'm not saying that there are that many similarities here. I don't pretend to know what's going on inside of my own mind, let alone Morrissey's, or know what his rationalization was for how the VH remaster turned out. I guess in the absence of an explanation from Morrissey himself (not that owes us one, mind you), this article explains, in great detail the rationale of another artist tampering with their legacy, but again, from a probably different perspective. I'm very biased in favor of Moz, of course, and will give him the benefit of many doubts, but I can't help but be a little curious- "why?". At least with the "Maladjusted" reissue there was that cool diary!
Anyway, some food for thought. The article is worth a glance if you're into this sort of thing. I found it rather interesting, but I do enjoy speculating, though probably incorrectly!
"Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creates"
It's a big topic with plenty to explore. One conclusion to which I always seem to return is this: when artists seem to hurt their work when they revise and re-release it, they're reminding us-- whether they're doing it deliberately or not, it doesn't matter-- that we are re-consuming old material, which might lead us to ask why exactly we're doing that. Yes, Morrissey botched the re-release of "Viva Hate". But why should it matter to us? My 1988 copy of "Viva Hate" didn't blow up suddenly and vanish in the wind. I've still got it. Similarly, anyone who says George Lucas "raped their childhood" (a tired meme which goes back to the late 90s) should stop and realize that the anger they feel probably indicates they're still trapped in their childhood. In short, it's worth remembering that all of these revisions and re-releases are nothing more than attempts to make us buy what we've already bought. Isn't that the real problem here? Morrissey's bad choices at least had the merit of making me ask myself, "Why would I want to buy 'Viva Hate' again, even if he had done it right?"
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Dave Jay
Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
Paul Mccartney did much the same with his "Naked" version of "Let It Be"...which, to me anyways, made the album sound much better than the original release ( I didn't actually buy a copy, I bought it for a Beatles fan-friend birthday gift, but ( rather slyly) played it first...
I am not a massive fan of that album anyway ( "Original" version or otherwise...).
What I do NOT understand about Morrissey's "dicking" around with his past releases is ( to me, anyway) plainly This:-
They are what they were. A Snapshot of the time they were made.
By all means Re-release things, but...just Add some other tracks that may have been omitted for whatever reason at the time...Ordinary boys is one of the ( Many by Morrissey, actually) songs that crept out of my speakers and stole its way into my heart...Those lyrics were about ME, and MY teenage years (...or so it seemed/still seems..) ...I have NO IDEA what this new "Replacement" track sounds like, and have no desire to hear it ( At this moment in time, anyway...but that's just me..) I have a copy of Kate Bush "Hounds Of Love" which was re-released with 6 extra tracks....she just "Tagged" them on at the end of the original album, and they are an excellent addition to that already awesome album....If I want to retain the original "Feel" of the initial release, I can simply stop playing it when those tracks are about to play. Simple. I can understand an artist looking back on some earlier work, and thinking "Well, it COULD have been better", and then trying to Improve on it ( I do a bit of writing myself, and I am always re-editing or changing things) But, once ,( as in Morrisseys case) it has been Officially sanctioned for release, then he should be prepared to let it stand on its own merits.
I personally still think "Viva hate" is a fine album as it was, and have no intention of buying a New improved "Version"....
Paul Mccartney did much the same with his "Naked" version of "Let It Be"...which, to me anyways, made the album sound much better than the original release ( I didn't actually buy a copy, I bought it for a Beatles fan-friend birthday gift, but ( rather slyly) played it first...
I am not a massive fan of that album anyway ( "Original" version or otherwise...).
What I do NOT understand about Morrissey's "dicking" around with his past releases is ( to me, anyway) plainly This:-
They are what they were. A Snapshot of the time they were made.
By all means Re-release things, but...just Add some other tracks that may have been omitted for whatever reason at the time...Ordinary boys is one of the ( Many by Morrissey, actually) songs that crept out of my speakers and stole its way into my heart...Those lyrics were about ME, and MY teenage years (...or so it seemed/still seems..) ...I have NO IDEA what this new "Replacement" track sounds like, and have no desire to hear it ( At this moment in time, anyway...but that's just me..) I have a copy of Kate Bush "Hounds Of Love" which was re-released with 6 extra tracks....she just "Tagged" them on at the end of the original album, and they are an excellent addition to that already awesome album....If I want to retain the original "Feel" of the initial release, I can simply stop playing it when those tracks are about to play. Simple. I can understand an artist looking back on some earlier work, and thinking "Well, it COULD have been better", and then trying to Improve on it ( I do a bit of writing myself, and I am always re-editing or changing things) But, once ,( as in Morrisseys case) it has been Officially sanctioned for release, then he should be prepared to let it stand on its own merits.
I personally still think "Viva hate" is a fine album as it was, and have no intention of buying a New improved "Version"....
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Worm
Taste the diffidence
Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
Also, Morrissey still has a neck.
Also, Morrissey still has a neck.
Giselle
wasted 8 of her 9 lives.
Re: "Tinkering with the Past" - Sci-Fi Fans Outrage with George Lucas
oh- zing!
Also, Morrissey still has a neck.
oh- zing!
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cornelius blaze
Boychild mustn't tremble!
Re: "Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creat
What is this?
What is this?
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Worm
Taste the diffidence
Re: "Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creat
Yes, George Lucas is dancing on the grave of our collective Star Wars childhood-- or, I guess, selling licenses for others to dance on said grave-- but let's not overlook the absolutely hilarious joys these videos offer, to wit, consider how brilliant they are as parodies of contemporary disco and hip-hop music.
Yes, George Lucas is dancing on the grave of our collective Star Wars childhood-- or, I guess, selling licenses for others to dance on said grave-- but let's not overlook the absolutely hilarious joys these videos offer, to wit, consider how brilliant they are as parodies of contemporary disco and hip-hop music.
D
DAVIE
Guest
Re: "Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creat
what the hell is that Kinect Star Wars? And I thought Star Wars couldn't get any worse WHYYYYYY GEORGE!
what the hell is that Kinect Star Wars? And I thought Star Wars couldn't get any worse
WHYYYYYY GEORGE!
cornelius blaze
Boychild mustn't tremble!
Re: "Lucas Shot First: The Surprisingly Powerful Sense of Betrayal George Lucas Creat
It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the (uh) Cha-Ching Cha-Ching
Ain't about the (yeah) Ba-Bling Ba-Bling
Wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag.
what the hell is that Kinect Star Wars? And I thought Star Wars couldn't get any worse
It's not about the money, money, money
We don't need your money, money, money
We just wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag
Ain't about the (uh) Cha-Ching Cha-Ching
Ain't about the (yeah) Ba-Bling Ba-Bling
Wanna make the world dance,
Forget about the price tag.
