Is 'When Last I Spoke to Carol' the sequel to 'What She Said'?

[Spineless Swine]

Discuss.

 

[bagface]

Discuss.

no. it is not.

 

[Spineless Swine]

Well there are parallels, i.e. Moz talking to some depressed women.

Compare
"What she said was sad, but after all the rejection she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy"

with
"i've hung on, i have edged along this narrow ledge since the day i was born in 1975."

and
"I smoke cos I'm hoping for an early death"

with
"When i said goodbye to carol, Black earth upon the casket fell"

 

[ray_afraid]

Well there are parallels, i.e. Moz talking to some depressed women.

Compare
"What she said was sad, but after all the rejection she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy"

with
"i've hung on, i have edged along this narrow ledge since the day i was born in 1975."

and
"I smoke cos I'm hoping for an early death"

with
"When i said goodbye to carol, Black earth upon the casket fell"

Interesting. I dig it.

 

[oye terence]

That is an interesting idea. I love 'Carol" Its my fave of the new stuff.

 

[Deego]

Discuss.

No, I refuse.

 

[ellay mort]

interesting parallel, i like it.

 

[jeniphir]

I love grouping songs in the oeuvre together into sub-sets (the songs about boxing/boxers; the camp-mayhem subgenre; etc), so this idea appeals to me. I might add "Sheila Take a Bow," "Jeane," and "Black Eyed Susan", as well, with the two we are discussing. They're sort of the kitchen-sink dramas of Moz's discography, I suppose.

--jeniphir

 

[ellay mort]

the camp-mayhem subgenre

ooh which are you including in that?

 

[Have-A-Go Merchant]

I love both What She Said and .....Carol and I can see where you are going with your theory however it would make the character in WSS only ten years old as in WLISTC she was born in 1975 and Meat Is Murder came out in 1985. I don't feel as though the character in WSS is supposed to be ten years old. So I have to disagree with your theory.

 

[Dave]

I love both What She Said and .....Carol and I can see where you are going with your theory however it would make the character in WSS only ten years old as in WLISTC she was born in 1975 and Meat Is Murder came out in 1985. I don't feel as though the character in WSS is supposed to be ten years old. So I have to disagree with your theory.

but if she is a character, "What She Said" might have been set in the future.

 

[biru]

Well,I dont think so...

 

[Life_Is_A_Pigsty]

Carol is a wonderful track from the new album, lyrically it seems very interesting.

I wasn't sure about the Spanish feel initially but now I love it...

 

[jeniphir]

ooh which are you including in that?

Songs I'd put in the "Camp Mayhem" category of Moz lyrics:

November Spawned a Monster
The Father Who Must be Killed
Margaret on the Guillotine
This Night Has Opened My Eyes
The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils
The Headmaster Ritual
Munich Air Disaster 1958
I Started Something I Couldn't Finish
First of the Gang to Die
and I think you could even make an argument for Certain People I Know

--jeniphir

 

[Flax]

Well there are parallels, i.e. Moz talking to some depressed women.

Compare
"What she said was sad, but after all the rejection she's had, to pretend to be happy could only be idiocy"

with
"i've hung on, i have edged along this narrow ledge since the day i was born in 1975."

and
"I smoke cos I'm hoping for an early death"

with
"When i said goodbye to carol, Black earth upon the casket fell"

I didn't find any connection between these.
Carol isn't necessarily a "depressed woman". According to the lyrics she was going through a difficult time, but that doesn't indicate depression specifically.

 

[jeniphir]

I agree w/ Flax. There is also the issue of Morrissey having "sourced" the lyrics of "What She Said" from another work, while "When Last I Spoke to Carol" appears to be all his own. I am not terribly articulate about this point (not enough coffee yet!), but I think an argument could be made against the two songs being related, because of that.

--jeniphir

 

[ellay mort]

Carol isn't necessarily a "depressed woman". According to the lyrics she was going through a difficult time, but that doesn't indicate depression specifically.

i think it's pretttttty likely she is depressed...


obviously the songs aren't direct sequels or inter-referenced specifically (very few songs ever are), but it's interesting to think of them on variations on the same theme.