Bengali in Platforms without the fringe

[goinghome]

After listening to Bengali In Platforms again recently, and reading the 1991 Spin interview SuedeMoz found and put in the Prefab Sprout thread, in which Morrissey claims it should not be unusual or suspect to write about Britain's Asian community because it's not a small one, I could say more.



When in London for the Troxy show this past summer, I spent time around Whitechapel strolling with a friend born and braised in London, who perfectly understood the subject matter of this song, Bengali In Platforms. It's a pictorial character sketch of certain people and behavior noticed in a place and time. The Whitechapel side-streets still have no shortage of markets, both indoor and outdoor, as well as cheap and cheerful boutiques. Asians, mainly of Indian descent, are quite dominant in the area, and in the late twentieth century, they tended to adopt clothes styles after they had fallen out of fashion in the mainstream. They went for bright flamboyant gestures in what they wore, including shoes; thus the platforms. So overall, an innocent affectionate portrait. Which never stopped offence being taken, but perhaps worth saying.

For those content not to take it all too seriously by reading more into the song and topic than was ever there, have a giggle at this story about an Asian guy successfully assimilating into white culture by appropriating black culture - https://www.theonion.com/asian-guy-successfully-assimilates-into-white-culture-b-1851032507

 

[RobLand]

I've never heard this version before. Where is this from? It reminds me how great VH is and how frustrating it is that his back catalog hasn't been handled well (expanded reissues, etc)

 

[bhops]

If Morrissey had only changed the line 'life is hard enough when you belong here' to 'life is hard enough when you born here' (which I felt was the sentiment of the original line anyway) the entire controversy would've been avoided.

 

[Mike Rourke]

If Morrissey had only changed the line 'life is hard enough when you belong here' to 'life is hard enough when you born here' (which I felt was the sentiment of the original line anyway) the entire controversy would've been avoided.

Indeed - or even 'hard enough when you come from here'.
It's a gorgeous song.

 

[Anonymous]

I've never heard this version before. Where is this from?

I can't remember the exact details, but it sounds like a very early take from the recording session. Clearly all the elements are in place, but it's amazing how much difference it makes once all the musicians really get hold of it.

 

[SuedeMoz]

I've never heard this version before. Where is this from? It reminds me how great VH is and how frustrating it is that his back catalog hasn't been handled well (expanded reissues, etc)

Agreed, removing "The Ordinary Boys" from the VH reissue was just criminal.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

So glad I have my original cd that still plays fine. Actually it was the first cd I ever bought!

19 Eighty Hate

 

[Duh]

If Morrissey had only changed the line 'life is hard enough when you belong here' to 'life is hard enough when you born here' (which I felt was the sentiment of the original line anyway) the entire controversy would've been avoided.

It's always been grasping though. Always will be.

 

[goinghome]

Indeed - or even 'hard enough when you come from here'.
It's a gorgeous song.

But that's splitting hairs. Who's really minding? If you were living in a place you're not from, or even present in a group but excluded from full membership, you might even feel recognised by someone naming your situation i.

Take a few other songs: November Spawned a Monster, and This Night Has Opened My Eyes, both of which were commended for sympathetically and fairly depicting certain human conditions, but do not shy away from the socially-awkward pain involved. Controversy can be stirred up by altering interpretation.

The fact that songs and lyrics are art should also be taken into account, or else what would you do with numbers like
Jack the Ripper and Last of the Famous... and plenty more.

Here's November before the month's gone, + 2!

 

[js138]

But that's splitting hairs. Who's really minding? If you were living in a place you're not from, or even present in a group but excluded from full membership, you might even feel recognised by someone naming your situation i.

Take a few other songs: November Spawned a Monster, and This Night Has Opened My Eyes, both of which were commended for sympathetically and fairly depicting certain human conditions, but do not shy away from the socially-awkward pain involved. Controversy can be stirred up by altering interpretation.

The fact that songs and lyrics are art should also be taken into account, or else what would you do with numbers like
Jack the Ripper and Last of the Famous... and plenty more.

Here's November before the month's gone, + 2!

Exactly, and how many actual fans of his work were so abruptly offended when they read those particular lyrics? How many of those that took issue just like to be offended anywhere? Who's to say that particular lyric isn't from him but a fictional antagonist in the song? But you bring up the best point, no he's not being remotely serious when singing about murder, crime, but THIS spot right here, this silly little song is where we must hold him accountable.

 

[gashonthenail]

When in London for the Troxy show this past summer, I spent time around Whitechapel strolling with a friend born and braised in London, who perfectly understood the subject matter of this song, Bengali In Platforms. It's a pictorial character sketch of certain people and behavior noticed in a place and time. The Whitechapel side-streets still have no shortage of markets, both indoor and outdoor, as well as cheap and cheerful boutiques. Asians, mainly of Indian descent, are quite dominant in the area, and in the late twentieth century, they tended to adopt clothes styles after they had fallen out of fashion in the mainstream. They went for bright flamboyant gestures in what they wore, including shoes; thus the platforms. So overall, an innocent affectionate portrait. Which never stopped offence being taken, but perhaps worth saying.

Whitechapel is in Tower Hamlets, and getting on for 40% of the population here in Tower Hamlets is of Bangladeshi heritage, and they wouldn't like to be described as of 'Indian descent'. It's a small point I know, but to which heritage we belong and where we belong is the main theme of the song. No one would bat an eyelid if someone talked about a white European not belonging in Bangladesh. What is the difference?
I've always heard the song as being sympathetic to the person the song is about - the Bengali in platforms. Is he in platforms as an attempt to be 'glam rock'? Is he a straight man trying to appear 'gay'? Moz has never really felt he belonged anywhere, and there is definite empathy for the subject of the song. We all want to belong somewhere. We all try to belong somewhere. With varying degrees of success. The idea that the song is somehow 'racist' is just ridiculous.

 

[Mosserray]

Cringe! Awful song.

 

[stux]

Thanks for posting, never heard this

 

[Skylarker]

If Morrissey had only changed the line 'life is hard enough when you belong here' to 'life is hard enough when you born here' (which I felt was the sentiment of the original line anyway) the entire controversy would've been avoided.

Because he is saying that if you weren't born there, you don't belong. That's why. He's anti-immigration when it comes to brown skinned people. That's quite obviously his point of view. He's not racist. He is just obsessed with preserving a culture and a particular version of society that is fixed in a time/space point that has almost entirely passed and/or been eclipsed by an exponential influx of disparate foreign (i.e. eastern) cultures. This largely is because he associates it with his youth, which he romanticizes narcissistically, as well as the the artists that influenced him in that period of his life.

 

[bhops]

Because he is saying that if you weren't born there, you don't belong. That's why. He's anti-immigration when it comes to brown skinned people. That's quite obviously his point of view. He's not racist. He is just obsessed with preserving a culture and a particular version of society that is fixed in a time/space point. This largely is because he associates it with his youth, which he romanticizes narcissistically, as well the the artists that influenced him in that period of life.

I honestly don't read it that way, I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Skylarker]

I honestly don't read it that way, I guess we'll agree to disagree on that one.

I actually don't disagree with you. Your point was very well made and had he written it your way it still would have been a very powerful line. But it would not have meant the same thing. He doesn't pull punches or mince words.

 

[Malarkey]

Because he is saying that if you weren't born there, you don't belong. That's why. He's anti-immigration when it comes to brown skinned people. That's quite obviously his point of view. He's not racist. He is just obsessed with preserving a culture and a particular version of society that is fixed in a time/space point that has almost entirely passed and/or been eclipsed by an exponential influx of disparate foreign (i.e. eastern) cultures. This largely is because he associates it with his youth, which he romanticizes narcissistically, as well the the artists that influenced him in that period of life.

That's bullshit.

He'd talked about not feeling he belonged in England because of his Irish background & he grew up in an area of Manchester that had a high black & Asian population by the 1950s.

 

[Skylarker]

That's bullshit.

He'd talked about not feeling he belonged in England because of his Irish background & he grew up in an area of Manchester that had a high black & Asian population by the 1950s.

Really? A high black population?

I am vaguely aware of the Irish comment; but I'd like to review it in its original context.

Can you link to this statement? Can you show me the statistics of the Northern England black population in the 60s and early 70s?

 

[Skylarker]

He is preternaturally obsessed with the mid 20th century version of England and anything that exists to preserve that way of life. Including skinheads. It isn't that he actually sides with skinheads. It's that he likes what they seek to preserve. That's why his support of them was so superficial and sloppy in the 90s. Read between the lines.

 

[Malarkey]

Really? A high black population?

I am vaguely aware of the Irish comment; but I'd like to review it in its original context.

Can you link to this statement? Can you show me the statistics of the Northern England black population in the 60s and early 70s?

His autobiography mentions growing up with black & Asian people. He went to black clubs as a teenager.

Recording 1960s Manchester's buzzing Caribbean scene

Volunteers are recording the 'living' memories of West Indian immigrants who lived in Moss Side and Hulme from the 1950s to the 1980s

www.theguardian.com

BBC - Manchester - History - The making of 'Curry Mile'

Wilmslow Road in Rusholme has been known as Manchester's 'Curry Mile' since the 80s, but it's been the home of South Asian cuisine for much longer.

www.bbc.co.uk

Manchester, 1964: