have you guys given up moderating the boards?

Can you PROVE any of this?

Peter

Can you prove the appearance of every single species that went extinct so far in the history of evolution? No, but HYPOTHETICALLY you could prove evolution in general and then make a fair guess about that. So, going by all that is PROVEN I can be safely assured that the universe was in perfect order.
 
If I can talk to you people who are not aligned with my views, then I would be a hypocrite if I thought it was a specifically religious thing of me to do to not listen to Morrissey's music.

By the way, Christians don't cut off homosexuals, they welcome then into the religion like any other sinner. No one expects a church to turn away a gambler or a alcoholic, so why not a homosexual? So just as gambler are expecting to try and quit gambling and alcoholics are expecting to try and stop drinking, so too are homosexuals expecting to try and stop being homosexual.

I never knew Kuiper is one of them crazy people...

you're weak kuiper... because you lay down your heart, mind, and will, to a rigid religious viewpoint. Well that's easy to do. Try thinking for yourself ("I am thinking for myself"...yeah, that's what the Jonestown citizens said when interviewed...where did they end up?).

;) ;)
 
man, just reading this thread
i think i can imagine some of what
my crucified hero went through on his cross
spartacus.jpg

no, not jesus
:cool:
 
I never knew Kuiper is one of them crazy people...

you're weak kuiper... because you lay down your heart, mind, and will, to a rigid religious viewpoint. Well that's easy to do. Try thinking for yourself ("I am thinking for myself"...yeah, that's what the Jonestown citizens said when interviewed...where did they end up?).

;) ;)

I never knew you were one of those people who call everyone with the ability to go against the majority viewpoint(s) crazy. You seemed more open-minded and intelligent, willing to carefully consider things. Kind of a shame, though I still like you.
 
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't. You came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn't.
M: It is.
A: Not at all.
M: Now look.
A: (Rings bell) Good Morning.

40-1.jpg
 
I never knew you were one of those people who call everyone with the ability to go against the majority viewpoint(s) crazy. You seemed more open-minded and intelligent, willing to carefully consider things. Kind of a shame, though I still like you.

What? ...you talking about me?

you must be mistaken.

no, in all seriousness, i have a couple homophobic friends. whatever... it happens. you can't always agree with everyone. and i'm not gonna run away from people who disagree with me. especially if they are more friends of friends.

but you seem to just go-with-the-Christian-flow. that's just weak. is it not? you've surrendered a big part of your life to your religion. And like others pointed it out, you never really had a choice. Depending on where you were born and who raised you...and presto! to a very large extent you are the person you are today...i bet if you were born in Iran or Iraq, chances are, you'd be a different person -- one who doesn't think Christianity is the Truth (though Homosexuality would still be a sin..well at least until the afterlife).

Don't you ever think about that, how much of your life was left to chance and circumstance, and not of your own free will or autonomy...nor was it determined by god. really, what makes you right and them (other religions) wrong? This flaw in religion is one reason why some of us atheists are atheists.

so who is right?


GM.jpg
 
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Everyone is a sinner, unless you are too narrow-minded and bigoted to comprehend that. :rolleyes:

In the eyes of the Christians, I am definitely a sinner..

However, I have not committed any sins according to the desires of the god I believe in and that's all that matters, right?
 
What? ...you talking about me?

you must be mistaken.

no, in all seriousness, i have a couple homophobic friends. whatever... it happens. you can't always agree with everyone. and i'm not gonna run away from people who disagree with me. especially if they are more friends of friends.

There's nothing "phobic" about it. I'm not afraid of them, and I don't hate them. In fact, it's a pretty big point of my beliefs to love homosexuals and welcome them into churches and communities and friendships with open arms, but that they should try to change. It's hardly "phobic" of me to actually want to be around them and to be friendly and loving towards them.

but you seem to just go-with-the-Christian-flow. that's just weak. is it not? you've surrendered a big part of your life to your religion. And like others pointed it out, you never really had a choice. Depending on where you were born and who raised you...and presto! to a very large extent you are the person you are today...i bet if you were born in Iran or Iraq, chances are, you'd be a different person -- one who doesn't think Christianity is the Truth (though Homosexuality would still be a sin..well at least until the afterlife).

The Christian flow? Actually I don't go with any flow. If everyone on planet earth agrees with me, good for them, good for me, good for the world. It won't encourage to retain me views or change them. So a majority of Christians consider homosexuality a sin, just because I don't agree with the majority of all people (but not by default) I should purposefulyl avoid the majority of a minority? And then I'd have to be the minority of that minority or I would be "going with the flow". Sounds like only infinite divisibility will satisfy your standards. I've surrendered my life to religion? Yes I have. I am submitted and obedient to God, and that's the right way to be. I am not ruled by anything else. So, that's pretty grounded when you (even if you have to temporarily suspend disbelief) take into account that God is immutable and doesn't ask much of you (well, doesn't ask many things, but those few things can become major problems in life). So I am focused on several very good guidelines in life and follow them and don't let anything else in life have control over me. That sounds incredibly independent, strong, and sane to me.

Do you realize (and Richard Dawkins too) that there are people born into minority religions in countries and that there are people who convert to other religions, right? There are quite a few Christians in Iraq and Iran. I didn't have a choice? Yes my parents are Christians, but I could change my mind right now if I so desired. Nothing's stopping me. But I am using my choice, free will, and autonomy to decide to continue to be a Christian.

Don't you ever think about that, how much of your life was left to chance and circumstance, and not of your own free will or autonomy...nor was it determined by god. really, what makes you right and them (other religions) wrong? This flaw of religion is one reason why some of us atheists are atheists.

so who is right?

GM.jpg

I've already explained what makes my religion (not necessarily you, stop, even if inadvertently, trying to paint me as an egocentric self-worshipper). What makes evolution right and Creationism wrong? You'll give the same answers I do and consider yourselves valid in saying so, but because you have in your mind predetermined who I am and what I will say, you won't be taking any of that in. Seems like you are the ones who arrive at the answer first and then figure out the rest of the details.
 
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It must be so reassuring to the many gay users of this site to know that you class them as sinners. You are a narrow-minded bigot.

Peter


The only narrow minded bigotry I see is coming from CERTAIN people who mock someone and criticize them over their religious beliefs...
 
The only narrow minded bigotry I see is coming from CERTAIN people who mock someone and criticize them over their religious beliefs...

If religion gives someone a code of values by which to live their life, great. When a religious person posts on here some clearly madcap ideas and passes them off as fact, then I'm going to challenge them.

I think I'm in pretty clear water to have a go at someone who believes that the Earth is no more that 10,000 years old and that "God" slowed down or sped up the speed of light to fit the facts.

Sheesh.

Peter
 
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If religion gives someone a code of values by which to live their life, great. When a religious person posts on here some clearly madcap ideas and passes them off as fact, then I'm going to challenge them.

I think I'm in pretty clear water to have a go at someone who believes that the Earth is no more that 10,000 years old and that "God" slowed down or sped up the speed of light to fit the facts.

Sheesh.

Peter

Well, God is seen as "the creator" by Christians...Evolution and the Big Bang Theory only explain so much...something had to be here to start everything...Nothing happens on it's own. So whatever was the beginning of how we came to be could be considered "God"...so it is not wrong to believe in God...and the Bible was supposedly written by men under the influence of God...but whose to say their since of time is the same as God's? 10,000 years to God COULD be 30,000,000 years to man...who knows? I'm not God, I don't have all the answers...the thing is NOBODY DOES...

I'm just simply trying to say that YOUR fact is not EVERYONE else's fact. Can you disprove without a shadow of a doubt the claims that were made? No...nobody can....so there is really no need to challenge someone and attack them over something like that...

Around here the popular opinion is that being "gay" is okay. People who agree with that are called "open minded". If you all are so open minded then why can't you accept that some people are not going to agree with youor like your lifestyle? Instead you attack them and mock them. How "open minded" is that really? It is very "closed minded" to me...and in my opinion makes you hypocrites...
 
Well, God is seen as "the creator" by Christians...Evolution and the Big Bang Theory only explain so much...something had to be here to start everything...Nothing happens on it's own. So whatever was the beginning of how we came to be could be considered "God"...so it is not wrong to believe in God...and the Bible was supposedly written by men under the influence of God...but whose to say their since of time is the same as God's? 10,000 years to God COULD be 30,000,000 years to man...who knows? I'm not God, I don't have all the answers...the thing is NOBODY DOES...

I'm just simply trying to say that YOUR fact is not EVERYONE else's fact. Can you disprove without a shadow of a doubt the claims that were made? No...nobody can....so there is really no need to challenge someone and attack them over something like that...

Around here the popular opinion is that being "gay" is okay. People who agree with that are called "open minded". If you all are so open minded then why can't you accept that some people are not going to agree with youor like your lifestyle? Instead you attack them and mock them. How "open minded" is that really? It is very "closed minded" to me...and in my opinion makes you hypocrites...

Now time can be warped to fit your argument?

Look - do you trust scientists or not? Do you believe radio-carbon dating? Do you believe that the drugs you take to make you better, stave off diseases were as a result of unscientific pursuits? Which bits of science are you going to pick as fact and reliable, and which are you going to discard because they don't fit your way of thinking?

I'm happy for you to go on believeing what you believe, but passing it off as FACT on a public forum is lying, plain and simple. If you want to believe in a guiding force that warped the laws of nature to fit what we see, then fine.

I am a trianed scientist. I will stand up for undeniable, provable fact every step of the way. If you want to believe all your stuff, go ahead, but I'd like you to stand up in court one day and try and prove it to a jury. You will lose.

Peter
 
Now time can be warped to fit your argument?

Look - do you trust scientists or not? Do you believe radio-carbon dating? Do you believe that the drugs you take to make you better, stave off diseases were as a result of unscientific pursuits? Which bits of science are you going to pick as fact and reliable, and which are you going to discard because they don't fit your way of thinking?

I'm happy for you to go on believeing what you believe, but passing it off as FACT on a public forum is lying, plain and simple. If you want to believe in a guiding force that warped the laws of nature to fit what we see, then fine.

I am a trianed scientist. I will stand up for undeniable, provable fact every step of the way. If you want to believe all your stuff, go ahead, but I'd like you to stand up in court one day and try and prove it to a jury. You will lose.

Peter


For a "trained scientist" you really lack the basic skills of reading AND comprehension! Are you the kind of scientist who one month says "eggs are good for you, eat them" and then the next month says "eggs are bad for you, don't eat them"?

Had you bothered to read, or if you read had you bothered to UNDERSTAND, I did not say the laws of nature were warped in any way.

First off let me make it clear since there seems to be some misunderstanding, I do not believe in God in the Christian sense of it or in any sense other than something out there made whatever the world came from. But that does not mean I am completely ignorant, like some people, of what the teachings are. I do something called reading -- it is fun AND fundamental! Try it sometime...Also being Bisexual, if there is a Heaven I doubt I'd be too welcome.

With that out of the way let me brush over ALL YOU chose to ignore to fit YOUR argument...and I'll go slow so all the "trained scientists" around here can understand...

I did not say time could be warped. Repeat, I DID NOT say time could be warped. THIS is what I said - The Bible states the Earth is (today) about 10,000 years old. Correct? Correct. The Bible was written by men not God himself. Correct? Correct. (Or do you claim God wrote it?) These men were supposedly under "divine influence" when they wrote the Bible. How am I so far? So far so good? Good. What I said was who is to say that God functions by man's terms? Who is to say that when man supposedly interpreted God saying the Earth was so many years old (10,000 now) that to God thousands were not millions? What makes you think God works on the same time table as man? Interpretations change throughout time...you as a "trained scientist" should know that.

I stated NOTHING as being FACT. I simply said that YOU don't have all the facts. And to pretend like you do is arrogant and repugnant. Because frankly there is a shit load of unexplained things that science has yet to answer. To call me a "liar" for not seeing things your way is ignorant. I stated an opinion, which evidently when it doesn't mirror the masses is an offense punishable by ridicule and mean-spirited remarks around here. Science may have taught you a lot but one thing it obviously didn't teach you was to be fair and open-minded. The ONLY thing that IS a FACT is that YOU do not have all the answers. And neither does science...to assume is otherwise hypocritical.

And it is funny to have to argue these things in a court of law...evidently the swearing in of witnesses in a case has no merit anymore. Why have to argue about the existence of a God in court when I have to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in his name?

You need to eject your DVD of "Inherit The Wind" because you, my man, are no Clarence Darrow...
 
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"And it is funny to have to argue these things in a court of law...evidently the swearing in of witnesses in a case has no merit anymore. Why have to argue about the existence of a God in court when I have to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in his name?"

I've never sworn to tell the truth in any gods name (male or female) when in court & neither is it law that you have too. So you are correct there is no merit in it.
As it happens, I'm in court (again) in March & once again I will swear to tell the truth but not for father christmas' sake or who ever you want to believe is the dad of Jesus, I'm a believer (as the Monkees once sang) that Joesph was his Dad (& Mary was his Mam) but who knows he could have been adopted (by a homosexual couple even)?

love

Grim
 
"And it is funny to have to argue these things in a court of law...evidently the swearing in of witnesses in a case has no merit anymore. Why have to argue about the existence of a God in court when I have to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in his name?"

I've never sworn to tell the truth in any gods name (male or female) when in court & neither is it law that you have too. So you are correct there is no merit in it.
As it happens, I'm in court (again) in March & once again I will swear to tell the truth but not for father christmas' sake or who ever you want to believe is the dad of Jesus, I'm a believer (as the Monkees once sang) that Joesph was his Dad (& Mary was his Mam) but who knows he could have been adopted (by a homosexual couple even)?

love

Grim

With my Grandfather being a lawyer and having sat in on many cases EVERY court appointment I have been present for there has always been the swearing in of the witnesses "So help you God". Why your court doesn't do it I have no clue...but I'm not the one that claims to know all the answers...that is UncleSkinny's job there...:rolleyes:

As for everything else you said, I agree anything could be possible...
 
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