Is it just in the USA?

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Yes, thank you, Worm. Well said.

I think it's interesting that the entertainment and media industry are reeling from the effects of the Internet and file sharing and its offshoots. Blogs Youtube and Napster and the iPod and satellite radio are killing, have killed, the music industry and tv and the news. We don't have to swallow the shit we are fed anymore, and now we have access to the alternatives we seek.

Now how do we apply those models to our government?

 

[Dave]

We vote for "the other side", the Democrats, and they sell us out anyway. Anyone that could really get behind them is deluded. I'm not going to get into the media because I don't have time. The Democrats are cowardly, because they know that the fear that has been instilled in people can work against them. that's why you get Hillary clinton saying that we are safer but not safe enough. It makes me think she may be worse than what we have now because safety has meant giving up privacy.

 

[zom]

Morrissey missed the mark a bit with this track. I like it fine and well, but after hearing Rufus Wainwrights Going to a Town, it pales.

 

[DAnn Coulter]

We vote for "the other side", the Democrats, and they sell us out anyway. Anyone that could really get behind them is deluded. I'm not going to get into the media because I don't have time. The Democrats are cowardly, because they know that the fear that has been instilled in people can work against them. that's why you get Hillary clinton saying that we are safer but not safe enough. It makes me think she may be worse than what we have now because safety has meant giving up privacy.

You are right about the Democrats and Hillary......

Everyone needs to vote Libertarian.

 

[Dave]

Was that it? Everyone's concerns and issues have been addressed? I tried to give this thread another few hours of life by dragging tired old Morrissey into it, but nobody took the bait. And nobody ever adresses my points except the guy with the He-Man signature. I tried really hard too.

 

[DAnn Coulter]

Was that it? Everyone's concerns and issues have been addressed? I tried to give this thread another few hours of life by dragging tired old Morrissey into it, but nobody took the bait. And nobody ever adresses my points except the guy with the He-Man signature. I tried really hard too.

Everyone's too busy watching that He-Man clip.....you won't get a response from anyone else for hours

 

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

We vote for "the other side", the Democrats, and they sell us out anyway. Anyone that could really get behind them is deluded. I'm not going to get into the media because I don't have time. The Democrats are cowardly, because they know that the fear that has been instilled in people can work against them. that's why you get Hillary clinton saying that we are safer but not safe enough. It makes me think she may be worse than what we have now because safety has meant giving up privacy.

When you say the Democrats are the other side, you're being naive, unless you mean they're the other side of the same coin. They are as beholden to their special interests (e.g., unions, corporations) as the Republicans are to theirs, and like it or not they have an interest in keeping the welfare state rolling along, because that's a healthy portion of their base. They aren't cowardly, they just aren't really the would-be heroes you want them to be.

The problem of the disconnect between "we, the people" and the government has been the increasing size and power of the federal government and the corresponding decrease in power (if not size) of the state and local governments. At the federal level, the government is enormously big and distant and the common citizenry is almost entirely removed from the process. At the state and local level, people can still make a difference by getting involved. Some of this has been a power grab by the federal government and some has just been the nature of the modern world and modern commerce, but whatever the cause it's a shame.

I'm not surprised people think Americans are idiots, by the way. When I watch our mainstream media, tv, Hollywood, etc., I'm inclined to agree. It's only because I know that's not representative that I know better. I also think that's the image the international media wants to portray. It's more interesting, and we're an easy and obvious target of ridicule, deserved or not. Just like our media focuses on the bad news, so does the international media.

 

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

Was that it? Everyone's concerns and issues have been addressed? I tried to give this thread another few hours of life by dragging tired old Morrissey into it, but nobody took the bait. And nobody ever adresses my points except the guy with the He-Man signature. I tried really hard too.

Sorry, all that typing took a while . . . .

 

[Please]

Welfare state? I have always been under the impression that the UK had a really big problem with that too. What's your unemployment rate?

1.6 MILLION give or take a few.

however we do have a welfare state, even though it is over stretched.

 

[Dave]

When you say the Democrats are the other side, you're being naive, unless you mean they're the other side of the same coin. They are as beholden to their special interests (e.g., unions, corporations) as the Republicans are to theirs, and like it or not they have an interest in keeping the welfare state rolling along, because that's a healthy portion of their base. They aren't cowardly, they just aren't really the would-be heroes you want them to be.

The problem of the disconnect between "we, the people" and the government has been the increasing size and power of the federal government and the corresponding decrease in power (if not size) of the state and local governments. At the federal level, the government is enormously big and distant and the common citizenry is almost entirely removed from the process. At the state and local level, people can still make a difference by getting involved. Some of this has been a power grab by the federal government and some has just been the nature of the modern world and modern commerce, but whatever the cause it's a shame.

I'm not surprised people think Americans are idiots, by the way. When I watch our mainstream media, tv, Hollywood, etc., I'm inclined to agree. It's only because I know that's not representative that I know better. I also think that's the image the international media wants to portray. It's more interesting, and we're an easy and obvious target of ridicule, deserved or not. Just like our media focuses on the bad news, so does the international media.

Note the quotation marks. I enjoy thinking of the two parties as Coke and Pepsi, small difference though one is slightly sweeter. Both are bad for you. You deserve a better response but I have to run to the Post Office.

 

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

Note the quotation marks. I enjoy thinking of the two parties as Coke and Pepsi, small difference though one is slightly sweeter. Both are bad for you.

Coke is worse, though. Our country needs a comeback from RC Cola - The REAL third way.

(You're right, I glossed over the quotation marks.)

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Nothin' wrong with good old American, fluoridated tapwater! Or Peroni.

Pardon the interruption. I went out with the better half (and he is, in many ways) and sprogs for pizza and two-three beers at our favorite Italian joint, complete with outdoor Bocce court and Italian (as in, still speaking) clientele. God I love Chicago. It is the epitome of America at its best.

I have to wash my dirty sproglings and put them to bed. I will be back later!

 

[Alcoholic Afternoons]

Nothin' wrong with good old American, fluoridated tapwater! Or Peroni.

Pardon the interruption. I went out with the better half (and he is, in many ways) and sprogs for pizza and two-three beers at our favorite Italian joint, complete with outdoor Bocce court and Italian (as in, still speaking) clientele. God I love Chicago. It is the epitome of America at its best.

I have to wash my dirty sproglings and put them to bed. I will be back later!

Now if we could just convert the two party system from Coke & Pepsi to Moretti & Peroni we'd have made a substantial improvement!

 

[nugz]

i just wanna say that i pretty much agree with everything "pregnant" and "worm" said. I wanted to reply to "Please's" post last night but i was too tired. you said everything i wanted to say, but better. thats all.

 

[Please]

i just wanna say that i pretty much agree with everything "pregnant" and "worm" said. I wanted to reply to "Please's" post last night but i was too tired. you said everything i wanted to say, but better. thats all.

Yet we are still no closer to understanding why people disaprove of Morrisseys song....

 

[nugz]

Yet we are still no closer to understanding why people disaprove of Morrisseys song....

i dont disapprove of it. actually i kinda like it. i really didnt read anyone saying they necessarily disapproved of the song's message, they just think its a crappy song. i dont see whats so hard to understand here.

 

[the judge]

My opinion:
the song is boring musically and the lyrics are a bit banal, I especially don't like the hamburger lines.

 

[Worm]

Please, I think people were divided about the song, with some liking it (a little) and some disliking it (a little). No one seemed overly passionate about it in either direction.

On the dissent side I think this sums up most responses:

My opinion:
the song is boring musically and the lyrics are a bit banal, I especially don't like the hamburger lines.

And as to the more specific question of why Americans are sometimes defensive, speaking for myself, I found the song, like some other digs at Americans as discussed above, to be a crude generalization unworthy of the bard of mopery--er, I mean the best songwriter ever.

 

[Worm]

I never really understood why Morrissey was criticized for literally wrapping himself in the flag. If your flag represents something negative to you there is a problem. If your country has allowed a fascist element to associate itself with patriotism, I think you need to reclaim your patriotism and redefine what it means.

That's the message of Irish Blood, English Heart. Besides having long-neglected roots in both of those countries, it's still a favorite song because of the passion. Because it addresses past and current problems but looks for a better future.

He changed the words for us and I wanted to run up and hug him when he sang that he was dreaming of a time when Americans are sick to death of Republicans AND Democrats.

I don't think it was just the flag in '92. It was the flag after the "black music" flap after "Panic", "Asian Rut", "Bengali In Platforms", "National Front Disco" and the skinhead tour backdrop. I don't think any of that added up to Morrissey being racist, but I'm not surprised other people's math came up with different results. Everyone talks about the hypocrisy of letting Britpop get away with that stuff a few years later, but I think that's nonsense. There's a totally different feeling to what they were doing. Morrissey was genuinely taking risks with his words and imagery. He paid a price. I respect him for that and I do not think, and never even began to think, that he was racist.

I share your distaste for Republicans and Democrats and have done for a long time. What the Democrats have done (or, in fact, haven't done) is shameful. November 2006 was the first time I'd felt vaguely optimistic about the direction this country was going in but the last six months have wiped that out. Nothing left to do but revolt, "but I'll wait a long time for a Beverly Hills coup..."

 

[Busy Clippers]

About the song, I agree with some others on this thread in that I wish he had found a better way to express the same sentiment. When you read the lyrics without listening to the song it seems as though he was reaching for something that he didn't quite grasp. His perceived rejection by a person? place? he loves at the end of the song is a classic Moz lyrical theme, just not sufficiently enunciated for my taste. And I don't particularly care for the music, it's kind of muzak-y although if the lyrics were a bit stronger that might work in its' favor, making it more subversive than if he were shouting angrily.

About America: America is all of this:

If it's the U.S. you're talking about (and this includes Morrissey), please use the proper name. All of those folks in Colombia, Bolivia, and Canada are pretty tired of being tarred with the same brush.