New Tracks/Album - Questions

[[email protected]]

Helloooooo
I've been out of "The Loop" and just downloaded a live group of songs featuring Mozs new songs and had some questions:
1. Whose written these songs? (Paris, Grow Up, AYNIM, Mama, Skull, Farewell) is it Jessie and Boz or is Alain still helping with songwriting? I hope so.
2. Is Alain expected to help write on the new album and will he help int he studio as well?
3. Any thoughts on Jessies writing compared to Alains? I personally like Alain as I feel he layers the songs a little more. I am not a musician but what I mean is Alains songs seem a little more complex and he blends lots of different elements where as IMO Jessie just writes straight forward Rock songs. I could be wrong, any thoughts?
4. When is the album due and where is it being recorded? has it been recorded? Will Mikey help in studio?
5. This would be the least amount of time between studio albums wouldnt it? Doe sthat mean anything. Is Moz back at it or is he trying to get it all out there so he can retire?
6. Mozs lyrics have become a little more straigh forward IMO. They are still excellent and deep but there arent as many deep lyrics that you really have to study and think about before you know what hes saying. Why the change? Anyone agree or disagree?

Sorry, lots of random questions but I know theres some of you out there who follow this day to day and any info would help. Thank you

 

[nowherefast944]

Helloooooo
I've been out of "The Loop" and just downloaded a live group of songs featuring Mozs new songs and had some questions:
1. Whose written these songs? (Paris, Grow Up, AYNIM, Mama, Skull, Farewell) is it Jessie and Boz or is Alain still helping with songwriting? I hope so.
2. Is Alain expected to help write on the new album and will he help int he studio as well?
3. Any thoughts on Jessies writing compared to Alains? I personally like Alain as I feel he layers the songs a little more. I am not a musician but what I mean is Alains songs seem a little more complex and he blends lots of different elements where as IMO Jessie just writes straight forward Rock songs. I could be wrong, any thoughts?
4. When is the album due and where is it being recorded? has it been recorded? Will Mikey help in studio?
5. This would be the least amount of time between studio albums wouldnt it? Doe sthat mean anything. Is Moz back at it or is he trying to get it all out there so he can retire?
6. Mozs lyrics have become a little more straigh forward IMO. They are still excellent and deep but there arent as many deep lyrics that you really have to study and think about before you know what hes saying. Why the change? Anyone agree or disagree?

Sorry, lots of random questions but I know theres some of you out there who follow this day to day and any info would help. Thank you

1. - it's a mix.
2. - yes
3. - jesse sucks
4. - due in the fall. see the main page?!
5. - he'll never retire. we won't let him. i hope
6. - he's already proven himself time and again to be a lyrical genius. maybe he's writing what he wants to write about now?

 

[Maurice E]

Helloooooo
I've been out of "The Loop" and just downloaded a live group of songs featuring Mozs new songs and had some questions:
1. Whose written these songs? (Paris, Grow Up, AYNIM, Mama, Skull, Farewell) is it Jessie and Boz or is Alain still helping with songwriting? I hope so.
2. Is Alain expected to help write on the new album and will he help int he studio as well?
3. Any thoughts on Jessies writing compared to Alains? I personally like Alain as I feel he layers the songs a little more. I am not a musician but what I mean is Alains songs seem a little more complex and he blends lots of different elements where as IMO Jessie just writes straight forward Rock songs. I could be wrong, any thoughts?
4. When is the album due and where is it being recorded? has it been recorded? Will Mikey help in studio?
5. This would be the least amount of time between studio albums wouldnt it? Doe sthat mean anything. Is Moz back at it or is he trying to get it all out there so he can retire?
6. Mozs lyrics have become a little more straigh forward IMO. They are still excellent and deep but there arent as many deep lyrics that you really have to study and think about before you know what hes saying. Why the change? Anyone agree or disagree?

Sorry, lots of random questions but I know theres some of you out there who follow this day to day and any info would help. Thank you

a few responses...
-album due in October; 2 and a half years since ROTT so nowhere near the closest amount of time between albums
-Jesse wrote All You Need; this song has had the best reception of the 6 post ROTT compositions. Boz wrote Paris, Grow Up and Goodbye. Alain wrote Squeezing and Mama.
Alain's also written another 10 new songs (whose titles are known)
-I (and many others) agree. Moz lyrics these days are lacking in the humour, richness, poetry, subtly of old. reckon he needs to reidcover some kind of lyrical inspiration and stop coasting on Moz lyric autopilot. on a positive note, I reckon he can do it! (new song titles sound much more intriguing than the ROTT ones)...

 

[[email protected]]

1. - it's a mix.
2. - yes
3. - jesse sucks
4. - due in the fall. see the main page?!
5. - he'll never retire. we won't let him. i hope
6. - he's already proven himself time and again to be a lyrical genius. maybe he's writing what he wants to write about now?

1. Good, I hope he never completely turns it over to Jessie. Boz and Alain have written some of his best songs.
2. Great. I know its blasphemy but I think Alain is the best songwriter Morrissey has ever worked with, even better then Marr, sorry, nut thats just an opinion.
3. I wont go as far as saying he sucks, hes a great player, like Andy and Mike, but his songwriting is elementary. I'm not a songwriter, so yes, hes more talented than me and I respect him for it, but hes no Alain, Johnny, or Boz. I do love "In the Future ....". But they need Alain in the studio. I think my favorite line up of all time is the kill Uncle line up. I wish they would all get back together.
4. I dont read the main page and trust you posters for my news. i got tired of reading the main page for news and insteasd getting articles like "Morrissey referenced by actor Bill Johnson", "Instrumental from Smiths song used as backdrop during news cast", "Shoes similar to Boz Boorers seen in Rack Room newspaper ad". So my apologies, I dont read the main page.
5. I pray every night that my kids are healthy, I live a long healthy life, my folks stay around another 20-30 yrs, and that Morrissey never retires. I just always think of his song "Get Off the Stage" about the Stones aging and I wonder if he'll ever decide its time to stop.
6. He could chant the word "pudding" over and over and find away to make it inspirational and creative so I am not knocking his lyrics but on some of his newer stuff I have just notcied a mroe elementary approach to getting his point across where as with the Smiths, and his early solo career I was left thinking for days, months, if not years, about what a certain song meant. I noticed this change on Quarry. Again, I'm not knocking it as Quarry and Ringleader are constantly playing on my melting ipod.

 

[[email protected]]

a few responses...
-album due in October; 2 and a half years since ROTT so nowhere near the closest amount of time between albums
-Jesse wrote All You Need; this song has had the best reception of the 6 post ROTT compositions. Boz wrote Paris, Grow Up and Goodbye. Alain wrote Squeezing and Mama.
Alain's also written another 10 new songs (whose titles are known)
-I (and many others) agree. Moz lyrics these days are lacking in the humour, richness, poetry, subtly of old. reckon he needs to reidcover some kind of lyrical inspiration and stop coasting on Moz lyric autopilot. on a positive note, I reckon he can do it! (new song titles sound much more intriguing than the ROTT ones)...

So happy to know Alain is still writing. Is it still just his health preventing him from touring with Moz. Again, nothing against Jessie, but Alains boots are hard for anyone to fill. I know Alain had his own thing with Red Lightning but why doesnt he write for others, or have a more popular side project, hes a genius. And very cool to see Boz writing more again. Jack the Ripper was brilliant and one of Mozs best songs, ROTT missed a good Moz/Boz collaberation.

 

[viva_M]

-I (and many others) agree. Moz lyrics these days are lacking in the humour, richness, poetry, subtly of old. reckon he needs to reidcover some kind of lyrical inspiration and stop coasting on Moz lyric autopilot. on a positive note, I reckon he can do it! (new song titles sound much more intriguing than the ROTT ones)...

Agreed. The new song titles sound fresh.

 

[bysshe]

6. He could chant the word "pudding" over and over and find away to make it inspirational and creative so I am not knocking his lyrics but on some of his newer stuff I have just notcied a mroe elementary approach to getting his point across where as with the Smiths, and his early solo career I was left thinking for days, months, if not years, about what a certain song meant. I noticed this change on Quarry. Again, I'm not knocking it as Quarry and Ringleader are constantly playing on my melting ipod.

I think I love you.

 

[chrisarclark]

when were songs written and/or recorded?

is there anywhere online that can list Morrissey's songs with details on when they were written and/or recorded? a detailed list of official recording sessions?

 

[I Drink Your Milkshake!]

Helloooooo
I've been out of "The Loop" and just downloaded a live group of songs featuring Mozs new songs and had some questions:
1. Whose written these songs? (Paris, Grow Up, AYNIM, Mama, Skull, Farewell) is it Jessie and Boz or is Alain still helping with songwriting? I hope so.
2. Is Alain expected to help write on the new album and will he help int he studio as well?
3. Any thoughts on Jessies writing compared to Alains? I personally like Alain as I feel he layers the songs a little more. I am not a musician but what I mean is Alains songs seem a little more complex and he blends lots of different elements where as IMO Jessie just writes straight forward Rock songs. I could be wrong, any thoughts?
4. When is the album due and where is it being recorded? has it been recorded? Will Mikey help in studio?
5. This would be the least amount of time between studio albums wouldnt it? Doe sthat mean anything. Is Moz back at it or is he trying to get it all out there so he can retire?
6. Mozs lyrics have become a little more straigh forward IMO. They are still excellent and deep but there arent as many deep lyrics that you really have to study and think about before you know what hes saying. Why the change? Anyone agree or disagree?

Sorry, lots of random questions but I know theres some of you out there who follow this day to day and any info would help. Thank you

I'll try to answer you with a little more depth than the other comments.

1. Here is a full list of every new song and who they were written by:

All You Need Is Me (Jesse Tobias)
That's How People Grow Up (Boz Boorer)
I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris (Boz Boorer)
One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell (Boz Boorer)
Something Is Squeezing My Skull (Alain Whyte)
Mama Lay Softly On The Riverbed (Alain Whyte)
It's Not Your Birthday Anymore (Alain Whyte)
When I Was Young (Alain Whyte)
When Last I Spoke To Carol (Alain Whyte)
Action Man (Alain Whyte)
Teresa, Teresa (Alain Whyte)
You Were Good In Your Time (Alain Whyte)
My Dearest Love (Alain Whyte)
Because Of My Poor Education (Alain Whyte)
I'm Looking Forward To Going Back (Alain Whyte)
I Was Bully, Do Not Forget Me (Alain Whyte)

2. Alain wrote MOST of the album and was working with Jerry Finn before Morrissey went into the studio to record the album. It can be assumed that Alain will play guitar on the songs he wrote.

3. Jesse Tobias is a horrible writer and horrible guitar player. Alain is not only a better writer but a better live performer seeing as he plays the songs his own way instead of just trying to mock Johnny Marr (on Smiths songs) and mimicking the song exactly as the studio recording sounds. Jesse Tobias is a waste of space.

4. The new album is due out in Autumn...that is all that has really been confirmed about the date. It is doubtful that Mikey Farrell will be involved with the album seeing as he seems to no longer be touring with the band and Morrissey has recruited Roger Manning to play the keyboards for the new record (as he did with 'You Are The Quarry')...

5. Actually, the span between 'Kill Uncle' and 'Your Arsenal' is only one year...the same goes for 'Vauxhall And I' and 'Southpaw Grammar'. The span between 'Ringleader of the Tormentors' and the new album will be roughly two years apart.

6. Morrissey admitted that in an interview last year that he writes differently now than he used. According to him, the songs now 'pour out of him' instead of him sitting around and putting them under a magnifying glass. Some may argue that also that he has either A) lost the touch or B) is simply trying to make pop songs with mass appeal for chart rankings...


And you're welcome...

 

[[email protected]]

I'll try to answer you with a little more depth than the other comments.

1. Here is a full list of every new song and who they were written by:

All You Need Is Me (Jesse Tobias)
That's How People Grow Up (Boz Boorer)
I'm Throwing My Arms Around Paris (Boz Boorer)
One Day Goodbye Will Be Farewell (Boz Boorer)
Something Is Squeezing My Skull (Alain Whyte)
Mama Lay Softly On The Riverbed (Alain Whyte)
It's Not Your Birthday Anymore (Alain Whyte)
When I Was Young (Alain Whyte)
When Last I Spoke To Carol (Alain Whyte)
Action Man (Alain Whyte)
Teresa, Teresa (Alain Whyte)
You Were Good In Your Time (Alain Whyte)
My Dearest Love (Alain Whyte)
Because Of My Poor Education (Alain Whyte)
I'm Looking Forward To Going Back (Alain Whyte)
I Was Bully, Do Not Forget Me (Alain Whyte)

2. Alain wrote MOST of the album and was working with Jerry Finn before Morrissey went into the studio to record the album. It can be assumed that Alain will play guitar on the songs he wrote.

3. Jesse Tobias is a horrible writer and horrible guitar player. Alain is not only a better writer but a better live performer seeing as he plays the songs his own way instead of just trying to mock Johnny Marr (on Smiths songs) and mimicking the song exactly as the studio recording sounds. Jesse Tobias is a waste of space.

4. The new album is due out in Autumn...that is all that has really been confirmed about the date. It is doubtful that Mikey Farrell will be involved with the album seeing as he seems to no longer be touring with the band and Morrissey has recruited Roger Manning to play the keyboards for the new record (as he did with 'You Are The Quarry')...

5. Actually, the span between 'Kill Uncle' and 'Your Arsenal' is only one year...the same goes for 'Vauxhall And I' and 'Southpaw Grammar'. The span between 'Ringleader of the Tormentors' and the new album will be roughly two years apart.

6. Morrissey admitted that in an interview last year that he writes differently now than he used. According to him, the songs now 'pour out of him' instead of him sitting around and putting them under a magnifying glass. Some may argue that also that he has either A) lost the touch or B) is simply trying to make pop songs with mass appeal for chart rankings...


And you're welcome...

Well now. Thank you. That surely answers my questions. I appreciate your time. I guess I never really listened or paid much attention to Jessie. I didnt think he was that bad but I never dug him from the beginning because of the whole Alanis Morrisette connection. I know some of the other musicians have their own connections, but alanis Morrisette??? Yuck! I do miss Alain live. Is it still his health keeping him from touring? And where is Gary! I wish the Kill Uncle band would come together and do an album.

 

[[email protected]]

I think I love you.

well, my wife is being a beeeeootch today so I think I love you too. You wont treat me like poo will u?

 

[MadameChaos]

As people mature they change and therefore so does their writing style. This is impossible to avoid and not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps he also doesn't feel the need to endlessly rewrite his songs, prefering instead to be more spontaneous.

 

[Jamie]

Is it still his health keeping him from touring? And where is Gary! I wish the Kill Uncle band would come together and do an album.

No one seems to have a clear answer on why he isn't touring, possibly including Alain himself. Something was clearly at issue, health-wise, in 2004, but, even by September, Boz was writing in his tour diary (on the bozboorer.com website) that he had seen Alain, he was doing better, and playing a lot (presumably to participate in the US tour that fall). Once Red Lightning briefly took off throughout 2005, it was assumed Alain was concentrating his energies on them and, until the RotT sessions were announced, it was unknown if he was going to work with Morrissey himself again or not.

In torr's interview with Alain during Red Lightning's brief tour in November 2005 (http://torr.typepad.com/weblog/2005/12/alain_whyte_qa.html), this question and response were exchanged:

With the arrival of Jesse Tobias, will you still be in Moz's touring band for '06?
I do not know if I will be asked.

Since then, it's always been a source of speculation but Alain has never outright stated in a public forum that he no longer wishes to perform live/tour with Morrissey as so many have assumed. I believe it is probably Morrissey and/or his management's decision. Alain was spotted at a number of the southern California shows, including at least one of the Hollywood Bowl shows in 2007. And it speaks for itself that he is obviously a gigantic component of the next album. Whatever the touring situation, he is--and probably will remain--Morrissey's "go-to" songwriting partner.

As for Gary, it was initially believed that he wanted more time with his family since he was having a second child circa the late 2006 dates. However, there is again an ambiguity as to whether he was asked to tour again or not. We'll probably never get the straight dope on these situations, but, fair enough, they're private matters.

That said, interestingly enough, Boz's website no longer has content in the 2004 tour diary archive, thus removing the few tidbits about Alain that were heard between June 2004 and April 2005. Conspiracy theorists of the world, unite and flake out.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[[email protected]]

No one seems to have a clear answer on why he isn't touring, possibly including Alain himself. Something was clearly at issue, health-wise, in 2004, but, even by September, Boz was writing in his tour diary (on the bozboorer.com website) that he had seen Alain, he was doing better, and playing a lot (presumably to participate in the US tour that fall). Once Red Lightning briefly took off throughout 2005, it was assumed Alain was concentrating his energies on them and, until the RotT sessions were announced, it was unknown if he was going to work with Morrissey himself again or not.

In torr's interview with Alain during Red Lightning's brief tour in November 2005 (http://torr.typepad.com/weblog/2005/12/alain_whyte_qa.html), this question and response were exchanged:

With the arrival of Jesse Tobias, will you still be in Moz's touring band for '06?
I do not know if I will be asked.

Since then, it's always been a source of speculation but Alain has never outright stated in a public forum that he no longer wishes to perform live/tour with Morrissey as so many have assumed. I believe it is probably Morrissey and/or his management's decision. Alain was spotted at a number of the southern California shows, including at least one of the Hollywood Bowl shows in 2007. And it speaks for itself that he is obviously a gigantic component of the next album. Whatever the touring situation, he is--and probably will remain--Morrissey's "go-to" songwriting partner.

As for Gary, it was initially believed that he wanted more time with his family since he was having a second child circa the late 2006 dates. However, there is again an ambiguity as to whether he was asked to tour again or not. We'll probably never get the straight dope on these situations, but, fair enough, they're private matters.

That said, interestingly enough, Boz's website no longer has content in the 2004 tour diary archive, thus removing the few tidbits about Alain that were heard between June 2004 and April 2005. Conspiracy theorists of the world, unite and flake out.

Cheers,
Jamie

Thank you. You would assume since Morrissey still has Alain writing for him that there is no musical rif between the 2 and why would Alain show up at shows or even be asked to write if there was a personal rif. If Alain is playing live at all anywhere, with anyone, you one would think he was in good health so with all of that said its puzzling that Alain does not tour with him. He is clearly better than Jessie. Regardless of what Alain says, he probably has chosen himself not to tour for some other reason, maybe its just tiring and hes been doing it for 17 years now. That could wear on you. And financially I would guess he is secure and makes more on songwriting than he does touring. I saw Moz in Jacksonville last year and it was spectacular but the show was missing Alains guitar work and stage presence. Perhaps Alain was becoming to liked by the fans and Moz saw him stealing some of the limelight?? Who knows, but atleast he is writing, and I hope to see him tour again someday. Nothing against Jessie, but Morrissey live without Alain just isnt the same. As for Gary, he is a great bassist and again, Morrissey live just doesnt seem the same without him. Remember the Kill Uncle tour, and the stand up bass? Gary was fantastic. I would love to see him atleast in the studio. It doesnt have anything to do with drugs again does it? I hope not. He too is probably just tired. And hes made his money and maybe just wants to concentrate on his side project. Why dont these guys side projects ever take off? Red Lightning, Gazmen? You would think with Morrisseys connections, and the fame they have claimed by the association with him that they would be able to get their own projects off the ground and into the record stores.

 

[bysshe]

well, my wife is being a beeeeootch today so I think I love you too. You wont treat me like poo will u?

I try to never treat anyone like poo.

*hugs*

 

[Maurice E]

Morrissey's band has probably never received more critical praise than on the recent tour. Several reviewers (including the NME) said it was his best backing band since the Smiths. Jesse T is surely central to this.

I suspect a lot of people don't like Jesse because of his stage persona. He hardly ever smiles and seems to take himself pretty seriously unlike Alain who always seemed (on stage and in interview) a really nice guy.

Jesse's songs were not outstanding on ROTT but they were not too bad unlike Mike Farrells (Sweety Pie and At Last I am Born); two of the weakest recent Moz songs, yet we hardly ever have a go at him.
Remember Alain wrote a few duff ones too (including Father Must be Killed); Jesse's 'You Have Killed Me' was the second highest scoring song after Pigsty.
Intriguingly, of the six post ROTT songs, All You Need is Me, written by Jesse, was voted the best (beating Alain's and Boz's new stuff).

I'm a big fan of Alain's best work and miss him at the live shows. I hope he returns some day and can't wait to hear the rest of his new stuff.
But I still think Jesse gets a lot of unfair criticism from the fans. If he can compose more stuff as catchy and strong as All You Need is Me, I think he deserves his place in the songwriting fold...

 

[Jamie]

Perhaps Alain was becoming to liked by the fans and Moz saw him stealing some of the limelight?? Who knows, but atleast he is writing, and I hope to see him tour again someday. Nothing against Jessie, but Morrissey live without Alain just isnt the same.

Why dont these guys side projects ever take off? Red Lightning, Gazmen? You would think with Morrisseys connections, and the fame they have claimed by the association with him that they would be able to get their own projects off the ground and into the record stores.

I don't feel any "limelight-stealing" is the issue. Boz is clearly a fan favorite and Morrissey does not seem to begrudge the cheering he receives. Alain received perhaps the same level of reception. The only difference is that he would occasionally talk on mic, whether to introduce Morrissey or to crack a quick joke.

For me, the lack of Alain's backing vocals has been a huge detriment to the live sound. Cf. the new live Why Don't You Find Out For Yourself with the version from Introducing Morrissey. It's just not quite the same w/out those high harmony notes. Boz and Mike are great musicians, but only just adequate as backing singers.

One of the undercurrents to Red Lightning's demise (and the Motivators', too, for that matter) seems to have been Alain's disappointment with the "failure to launch." He apparently felt the same as you: how can you work with Morrissey for so many years and fall on deaf ears? Red Lightning should have gone farther. They had a booking agent, some semblance of management, and some terrific songs recorded--purportedly as much as a full album. If they had gotten an opening slot on a major tour, it could have made all the difference.

I've personally come to regard Jesse as a usurper to Alain's full position, simply because his songwriting does not justify any involvement in the studio and his only cache as a live guitarist is that he mimics Smiths songs better than Alain does. He is a technically proficient and adequate sessions/live guitarist, but not a great songwriter. He has little personality on stage and many less-than-stellar credits on his resume. I agree with many that Morrissey's contributions to All You Need Is Me are what make the song quite good (not great). The music is by-the-numbers and no large improvement on his fare for RotT. I've been bemused by the assertions some posters make that the virulent opposition many fans feel towards him is "racist," b/c I feel it's a cheap copout to justify defending him. His musical style has little camaraderie with Morrissey, whatever Morrissey seems to think. That is the benchmark he is being measured by. How many people will be humming I Just Want To See The Boy Happy in 20 years? In five? That's great if they are personal friends, but, lest we forget, James Maker--the original fifth Smith-- had to leave the stage at one point, too.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie]

Remember Alain wrote a few duff ones too (including Father Must be Killed); Jesse's 'You Have Killed Me' was the second highest scoring song after Pigsty.
Intriguingly, of the six post ROTT songs, All You Need is Me, written by Jesse, was voted the best (beating Alain's and Boz's new stuff).

Maurice, I agree with a lot you have written, but I take a different stance on the above. I cannot disagree that Alain has written a few stinkers, but, depending on your subjective viewpoint, you could argue that some (e.g., Papa Jack) were deep-sixed by Morrissey's lyric or (e.g., The Father Who Must Be Killed) overproduced.

The lily is being a gilded a bit on Jesse's two songs namechecked in your post. First, You Have Killed Me did not crack the top 100 and was at least 50 points lower than Life is a Pigsty, so not only a distant second but a landslide in a top 200 list. All You Need Is Me, I think, has benefited from its familiarity in frequent live airings. That is, its "newness" skews the position. Could be higher, might be lower--it's hard to say without a few years to evaluate it in the full context of the rest of his body of work. For my part, I still think the melody is threadbare and so-so; Morrissey's lyrics are the largest part of its success.

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[SparkleBoy]

Why dont these guys side projects ever take off? Red Lightning, Gazmen? You would think with Morrisseys connections, and the fame they have claimed by the association with him that they would be able to get their own projects off the ground and into the record stores.

Who you worked with in the past and that level of success is NEVER an indicator of future success. Just ask Johnny Marr...Mick Ronson...Mick Jagger (solo)...on and on and on...

 

[Danny_]

I'm surprised to hear Alain was disappointed with the reaction to his band. Considering his age and the fact that he allowed the band to be marketed as "featuring Alain Whyte of Morrissey fame" what was he expecting?