Smiths or Street?

[marred]

I agree with neither of you.

Morrissey should work with Tony Visconti or someone else, not Stephen Street.

I'm not very impressed with Stephen Street's post Smiths and Morrissey output.

Yeah Viva Hate and and Street's tracks on Bona Drag were so awful and didn't help Morrissey with his post Smiths career whatsoever did they?

Way to dump on my 2 fave albums kewpie. Dear god I hope you are in the minortiy. Think I'll go put on one of those crappy sounding albums now

Moz writes the words, not the music. Street wrote the music to the early solo stuff, as Marr did with the Smiths, and Boorer/Whyte/Tobias do now.

yep and Street had those compositions before he hooked up with Morrissey having written them with him in mind. I believe he sent them by tape in the mail. I read it somewhere, maybe his site or an old magazine of mine?

Don't forget Maurice Moz also writes the melody

 

[Jones]

Moz writes the words, not the music. Street wrote the music to the early solo stuff, as Marr did with the Smiths, and Boorer/Whyte/Tobias do now.

Street wrote a few riffs that were then drastically changed by Reilly's guitar playing and Morrissey's song structures. That's not songwriting.

 

[Maurice E]

Street wrote a few riffs that were then drastically changed by Reilly's guitar playing and Morrissey's song structures. That's not songwriting.

Morrissey's song structures? Eh?
Moz comes up with a vocal melody. That's all. Moz himself has frequently said that he's no musician which shows the importance he places in adding a vocal melody to a pre-existing piece of music. The very best Morrissey/Smiths songs are wonderful musical compositions in their own right, even without the singing. That's the test of a great song.
I know all about the Reilly/Street controversy with regard to the Viva Hate songs but (even if you believe Reilly's claims, which Street vociferously denies) there were plenty of brilliant Morrissey/Street compositions that Reilly had nothing to do with.
Also, Reilly refused to play lead guitar on 'Everyday is like Sunday' because the CGF chord sequence was to his mind too boring and predictable (so Street had to play it himself). Yet this boring and predictable chord sequence has resulted in the fans' 2nd favourite song in the whole Moz/Smiths back catalogue (only bettered by There is a Light).
Street was a fantastic songwriter and Moz was an absolute fool for not paying him and forcing Street to take out an injunction which effectively ended their musical partnership. How different the Morrissey solo years might have been if their partnership had endured...

 

[marred]

Well said Maurice! Jones' opinion is obviously based on misinformation.

Street wrote a few riffs that were then drastically changed by Reilly's guitar playing and Morrissey's song structures. That's not songwriting.

Yeah like you know the detailed ins and outs of how those songs actually came together? You were in the room were you? Vini Reilly did not co write Viva Hate and besides Morrissey and Street wrote "Last of the famous International Playboys", Interesting Drug" and their B sides way after Reilly had gone so it's not like Street needed Reilly to hold his hand is it? The tapes Street sent were not just riffs but actual songs minus vocals with other instrument parts to them. Make sure you know all the facts before you get your cards out Yeah like Reilly was so integral to the writing of Viva Hate that he was fine with having Street's name right next to Morrissey's for every composition??? Give us a break.

 

[modrevolve]

Yeah the production on those Blur records were real shit weren't they..

I agree with neither of you.

Morrissey should work with Tony Visconti or someone else, not Stephen Street.

I'm not very impressed with Stephen Street's post Smiths and Morrissey output.

 

[joe frady]

I don't think Moz just contributes the vocal melody lines. ( Although even if he did just that - it's a hugely underrated skill that he has for it. Yes, his lyrics are genius, but, to my mind, his placing of those lyrics within a sublime vocal sound is equal to that genius. And it only appears to be improving with age, in my opinion)
But, numerous collaborators, including Street, have also remarked upon Morrissey's uncanny technique of restructuring a song at the point of vocalising, so that what the co-writer had assumed was verse became chorus, vice versa, middle eight becomes something entirely new, etcetera. I think this is a substantial part of what makes Morrissey's work unique.

 

[Jones]

The vocal line determines the structure of the song. Not the riffs. There's no such thing as a song minus vocals. There's only an instrumental. The vocals are the song.

And I never said Vini Reilly wrote the songs. It's just that his style is stamped all over the album so you can bet your life the original instrumentals sounded very different.

 

[marred]

The vocal line determines the structure of the song. Not the riffs. There's no such thing as a song minus vocals. There's only an instrumental. The vocals are the song.

And I never said Vini Reilly wrote the songs. It's just that his style is stamped all over the album so you can bet your life the original instrumentals sounded very different.

The not to be underestimated importance of Morrissey's melodies defining the song structure alone, I know what you're saying but Street didn't just supply riffs. You can bet your life every original demo sounds different from the finished song regardless of who is doing the writing. Street's sound is all over that album as well because you can hear viva hate in "Last of..." and "Interesting Drug" which were being worked on immediately after Johnny left the Smiths but were put on the back burner till later.

On the scales of justice Stephen Street far outweighs Vini Reilly... not that we don't appreciate Vini's help mind you cuz his guitar is beautiful on that album. But if Vini had his way as Maurice pointed out we wouldn't have "Every day is like Sunday"

If you can't acknowledge the significance of Morrissey and Street's partnership as an extension of Morrissey's flourishing career then I really don't know what to say?

After all we are talking about the man who produced "Strangeways here we come".

Plus I can't see Morrissey letting anyone else have their initials stamped on his name.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

On the scales of justice Stephen Street far outweighs Vini Reilly... not that we don't appreciate Vini's help mind you cuz his guitar is beautiful on that album. But if Vini had his way as Maurice pointed out we wouldn't have "Every day is like Sunday"

'Mr Reilly pleads insanity your honour'

I'm quite glad the Morrissey/Street writing partnership soured actually. If it had continued, if they'd written & toured into say 1991, Street would probably have missed out on Blur, he'd probably never have produced 'There's No Other Way' & Blur would've most likely have been dropped, never to be heard of again.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

The vocal line determines the structure of the song. Not the riffs. There's no such thing as a song minus vocals. There's only an instrumental. The vocals are the song.

Erm, wasn't the music completely recorded for most of The Smiths songs before Morrissey even got there?

 

[Worm]

Lost in the Reilly/Street controversy is that Street was also the producer, and hence deserves credit for putting everything together in the studio and making it work. Even if Reilly is correct, I don't doubt that it was Street who made it all come together brilliantly because he was both songwriter and knob-twister. In the case of "Suedehead", for instance, it probably went like this: Street wrote a decent demo, Reilly made it better, and then Street transformed it in the final stage into a great song. Does Street deserve credit as writer? Producer? Both.

So, while I agree with Maurice that Street's songwriting is missed, what's really missed is a guy who complemented Morrissey as a complete composer, as Marr was. There were many involved in "Viva Hate", but in essence it was entirely a Morrissey/Street production from top to bottom. I don't think you can say that of the music he recorded after that. Many, many classic songs were made after VH, but I think you can make the case that there was never a collection as cohesive as "Viva Hate"-- and this is one key element that makes it more like a Smiths album than a solo album.

Erm, wasn't the music completely recorded for most of The Smiths songs before Morrissey even got there?

They worked out the songs' arrangements ahead of time, and then the music was recorded. There were many examples, the most famous of which is Morrissey and Marr coming up with the basic version of "Panic" in the kitchen one morning after hearing George Michael on the BBC after a story about Chernobyl, or however the story goes. I think Marr probably came up with the basic structures by sending Morrissey tapes-- i.e. demos-- and then he'd record them in the studio with the band until a version existed that could support the vocals. Then Morrissey popped by, yawning and checking his watch, to create stone-cold modern pop classics in about ten minutes.

 

[marred]

'Mr Reilly pleads insanity your honour'

I'm quite glad the Morrissey/Street writing partnership soured actually. If it had continued, if they'd written & toured into say 1991, Street would probably have missed out on Blur, he'd probably never have produced 'There's No Other Way' & Blur would've most likely have been dropped, never to be heard of again.

And blurr never to be heard of again is a bad thing how?

 

[Pokey]

Absolutely Stephen Street, thats my fav Morrissey era, he brought out the best pop sound in morrissey's career.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

And blurr never to be heard of again is a bad thing how?

Well I'm a big Blur fan so y'know... go figure.