The Guardian: "Who’s bad? From Michael Jackson to David Bowie, why are some stars uncancellable" by Tim Jonze - tiny Moz mention (April 1, 2024)


Excerpt:

How do you grapple with cases in which there are conflicting views and grey areas? Does Morrissey’s embrace of far-right political groups such as For Britain have to be weighed on some kind of moral scale against Johnny Marr’s progressive values, to work out if the Smiths are cancelled? Should Benjamin Zephaniah be shunned for being violent towards a former girlfriend, or is he excused because he was the one who wrote about it, expressing regret and the need to be better? Before long, my list of factors had spiralled into a tangle of nuances and contradictions.
 
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Never tell the truth (if it goes against the liberal elites) if you want a career in the entertainment industry. Why loads of actors in Hollywood keep their trap shut and go along with the madness.

He didn't go against 'the liberal elites' - he had a few music hacks lying about him & a "dozen" fans who liked the lies.
 
He didn't go against 'the liberal elites' - he had a few music hacks lying about him & a "dozen" fans who liked the lies.

What on earth are you on about, he spouted stupid stuff that some of his fans didn't like, hence the Castlefield Bowl cancellations after he only sold 4k of the 16k tickets available.
 
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What on earth are you on about, he spouted stupid stuff than some of his fans didn't like, hence the Castkefield Bowl cancellations after he only sold 4k of the 16k tickets available.

He sued the NME for calling him a racist - gave a huge amount of money to Love Music Hate Racism who are anti-racism & pro-immigration - then the music hacks kept finding reasons to call him a racist.

So - fans weren't just reacting to what he said - they were reacting to the hacks saying this was the final proof that he was a racist.

And Brummie was on the 2017 thread posting the crank-fraud thing he'd been posting for YEARS before that.
 
OK. You don't really make much sense any more, so I'll put you back on ignore.

Keep going after Simon Wratten on Twitter, though: he's the real enemy.
Post #2387 - Simon says Morrissey burnt the dinner & he & Damon had to get fish & chips instead & it was nice.
 
It was more than a dozen.

You're in a better position to do a headcount than me - but most fans who are still clinging on are hoping the far right will go away.

If that doesn't happen then his gigs will be in the back of pubs & they'll get cancelled when anti-fascists find out where they are.

Not that he would play in the pubs - but it can't go on.

He's going to have to get & take serious career advice or retire.
 
No, it wasn't. There was already a flurry of activity around his Norway comments, his Bataclan comments, his Orlando comments - but he didn't arse up the phrasing enough & he hated Trump - so it wasn't until the gay vegan came along that he really got a kicking.
He got stick for all of that, but it was mostly “oh, that silly Mozzer”. It’s not comparable.
 
He got stick for all of that, but it was mostly “oh, that silly Mozzer”. It’s not comparable.

Aye, Gregor - that's what I'm saying. They were trying & failing until they could pitch Anne Marie at him - but you can see what they were up to. There's a trail of posts & threads all over the internet.
 
Allegations against Jackson were tested in court, but not guilty isn't good enough for some when there's virtue signalling in the offing, the glow of righteousness is very alluring. Also, anyone can make allegations after someone's death, no fear of having them adjudicated and being exposed. If they can't be bothered to do anything during the person's lifetime then I can't be bothered to take them seriously.

With Bowie there's a woman who said she had sex with him when underage, she recalls staring into his one brown and one blue eye. Except both eyes are blue, he just had a permanently dilated pupil. Something you might spot if you were inches from his face staring into his eyes and not a lo-res pic in a mag. No further questions m'lud. PS I was molested by Albert Einstein, he's yet to refute it.
 
You're in a better position to do a headcount than me - but most fans who are still clinging on are hoping the far right will go away.

If that doesn't happen then his gigs will be in the back of pubs & they'll get cancelled when anti-fascists find out where they are.

Not that he would play in the pubs - but it can't go on.

He's going to have to get & take serious career advice or retire.

Judging by Twitter at the time.........before i got kicked off.

Morrissey just needs to get some albums out......he still has time to be revered again.
 
Allegations against Jackson were tested in court, but not guilty isn't good enough for some when there's virtue signalling in the offing, the glow of righteousness is very alluring. Also, anyone can make allegations after someone's death, no fear of having them adjudicated and being exposed. If they can't be bothered to do anything during the person's lifetime then I can't be bothered to take them seriously.

With Bowie there's a woman who said she had sex with him when underage, she recalls staring into his one brown and one blue eye. Except both eyes are blue, he just had a permanently dilated pupil. Something you might spot if you were inches from his face staring into his eyes and not a lo-res pic in a mag. No further questions m'lud. PS I was molested by Albert Einstein, he's yet to refute it.
“not guilty isn't good enough for some when there's virtue signalling in the offing, the glow of righteousness is very alluring. Also, anyone can make allegations after someone's death, no fear of having them adjudicated and being exposed.”

Nothing to add to that but a simple, yet deeply heartfelt, thank you.

Robson was questioned in detail during Michael Jackson’s criminal trial in 2005 and repeatedly denied any wrongdoing by Michael despite being pressed about this topic by seasoned prosecutors.
In 2011, two years after Michael’s death, Robson was turned down for the lead choreography job in the Michael Jackson themed Cirque du Soleil show. It was following this rejection that he realised he had been abused. After losing out on the Cirque Du Soleil job, Wade Robson wrote a book claiming Michael Jackson had abused him and shopped it to multiple publishers, all of whom rejected it. He then filed a claim against Jackson’s Estate under seal, followed by a lawsuit against Jackson’s companies. These claims were extensively litigated. A few years later, in 2017, MeToo happened, and Robson had an open net. By then, virtue signaling was more important than the truth, and those who had had it with that black eccentric millionaire with a Peter Pan complex in the 90’s and 2000’s had a field day. He wasn’t there to defend himself and nobody would dare to ask any questions. Robson and his ilk could roam free, unchallenged.

Thankfully, as is evident by the musicals, plays, record sales, streaming figures, the upcoming biopic, YouTube numbers, merchandise and the influence he continues to have on younger artists, not enough people really believe he was guilty.

 
Judging by Twitter at the time.........before i got kicked off.

Morrissey just needs to get some albums out......he still has time to be revered again.

Twitter is astroturfed.

He's not going to be revered.

He's got two songs that might - might - get shared by white nationalist accounts. If he doesn't trend outside their echo chamber then it's not really worth it, but content is content. A few diehards might buy the albums.

It's not even needed any more - people who like media attention are saying 'controversial' things.
 
I can’t believe this junk is still being regurgitated. And of course the flag is rabidly flown by Tim Jonze.
Regurgitated junk from Jonze: who else, banging on like a broken record and one-trick pony. How proud will he be on his deathbed of having participated relentlessly in the attempted cancelling of artists who composed such broad constellations of interior universes?
It was in his June 2018 interview with Dodwell, specifically this part here:
I wouldn't say, there, that he's openly "supporting" Robinson, more pointing out that certain ideas/debates/discussions get shut down in the UK these days, and using Robinson as an example of that.

All you guys probably know this but an English person told me today that Tommy Robinson began his 'activism' after finding out his young female cousin was groomed, drugged, raped and trafficked by a paedophile group of various Muslim origins. Not being an Eton graduate and lacking ruler skills would already have meant he rubbed many up the wrong way. I imagine embarking on a political path in medias res, in shock from vicarious trauma, isn't the best place to start from, but I'm not well acquainted with his range of views or activity.
In what world is, cancelling shows, having emotional breakdowns, refusing to talk to the press & saying your heart is broken & you don't have the money to sue, a sign of being "fine" with anything that's happened to him since 2017.
Do you have to catalogue everything? Could you not soften the tongue lashings? Please don't rake up my mistakes...?
Keep going after Simon Wratten on Twitter, though: he's the real enemy.
Who is Simon Wratten?

I wish you people would stop feeding the troll!

Which troll? You are insanely hard on Malarkey, you know? Did you two have a run-in? Or are you against anyone seeking fairness for Morrissey?

They pitched him.
Then they bitched him.
His fame has strunk so much that Marr really should intervene - because it won't be possible to keep the stink away from the Smiths. The Smiths will be the only thing that racists have to comment on & meme about.
Do we have to assume then that most people are too stupid to think for themselves and count factors beyond tabloid puke?
Twitter is astroturfed.

He's not going to be revered.

He's got two songs that might - might - get shared by white nationalist accounts. If he doesn't trend outside their echo chamber then it's not really worth it, but content is content. A few diehards might buy the albums.

It's not even needed any more - people who like media attention are saying 'controversial' things.

Is the astroturfing on Twitter affecting others? Many others?

I think he will still be revered, but the reverence won't be spread thin.

Why do you believe this overpowering media influence is working so effectively, and is there a bulwark that can succeed against it?

Is there a chance you could be wrong? :brows:

And Brummie was on the 2017 thread posting the crank-fraud thing he'd been posting for YEARS before that.
See what I mean about the crossover between msm + fansite.

Thankfully these days, citations from other sources that look at the bigger picture are coming in too. I guess we really can never expect any better from this one. Do you think TJ is a member of MSolo or a visitor? I do. If so, of what import would that be? :tiphat:
 
I thought the Maida Vale gig when he was promoting Low in high school was the start of all this nonsense. Many of us on this site were listening live and commenting on the new songs when in between songs he said
“I was very surprised the other day, it was very interesting to me to see Anne-Marie Waters become the head of Ukiip”

“Oh no, sorry, she didn’t. The voting was rigged. Sorry, I forgot.”
The crowd went deadly silent and it was a real wtf moment.
Yep, that was the start of it all. The start of the bleakest 18 month period in Morrissey's several decades of fame. The only positive is that it did at least end in spring 2019 - there's been nothing to add to it all since.
It's almost as if Morrissey was set a task in the summer of 2017 to lose 50% of his entire fanbase.
He thought, "yeah, there's an interesting challenge. Hmm, let me think...
I'll start with a strike at the heart of the indie world, at a 6 Music live concert. Couldn't get more indie! I'll mention the UKIP election at a time when no decent person could actually give a shit about UKIP. The Brexit vote has already happened FFS! Just mentioning the UKIP election will freak them out, let alone the idea that I have a preferred candidate!
Then I'll say a ton of dodgy dog-whistle nonsense to a prominent German culture mag. I'll deny that I said any of it, and challenge them to prove it. They'll finally print it word-for-word which will make me look like a lying arsehole with bigoted views. That'll shake off a few more thousand fans!
Then a few months later, I'll put an official post up on my website pleading with the fans to vote for a far right political group. That'll surely get ride of another 10,000! Then, a year later, in spring 2019 just when all the fuss is starting to die down and people think I've moved on having regretted all that I've done and said, I'll deliberately and prominently wear the emblem of the far right group, not only at concerts but also on live TV before millions. That'll show them!
And there you have it - my plan to shake off 50% of my entire fanbase in just 18 months, and damage my reputation forever. What's more, all the Smiths related goodwill that ever came my way will now be disproportionately channelled towards Johnny Marr. In the 2020's, if things go according to plan, radio stations in the UK will be playing new songs sung by Johnny Marr (yes, SUNG by Johnny Marr!), but they will have stopped playing anything new sung by me!"

On the plus side, he's at least not added to any of this nonsense since spring 2019 which is now 5 years ago. A new generation of teenagers/young adults has been drawn to the Smiths songs (as new generations always will be), and although aware of what he did in those bleak 2019/2019 times, they weren't following him then so don't care too much. That explains the much better atmosphere at the recent UK concerts than in 2019/2020 (as well as the smaller venues) which bodes well for the future. And although the 'indie world' may never forgive him, I reckon Radio 2 may jump back on board which will make a big difference to his commercial (and album deal) prospects.
Let's hope the album pipeline gets unblocked pretty soon. I thought Dog on a Chain was excellent (the album not the song) so I really hope the new stuff gets released soon, and he continues to put out albums as long as his health etc allows.
 
All you guys probably know this but an English person told me today that Tommy Robinson began his 'activism' after finding out his young female cousin was groomed, drugged, raped and trafficked by a paedophile group of various Muslim origins. Not being an Eton graduate and lacking ruler skills would already have meant he rubbed many up the wrong way. I imagine embarking on a political path in medias res, in shock from vicarious trauma, isn't the best place to start from, but I'm not well acquainted with his range of views or activity.

You weren't exactly being subtle - but really? Another Robinson fanboy.

He started off in the BNP - they squealed on him - so we know this. And he - like the rest of the BNP - took up the grooming gang cause after Channel 4 ran a documentary about it in 2004.

Their antics held up justice as the authorities panicked about community tensions.
 
interesting that many believe he is not "informed" if he leans right. Typical libs believing only their views are the correct ones. I'll just wait here for the oncoming comments about being prejudice even though there is not evidence of that, and in fact plenty to the contrary....
 
There's nothing wrong with being right wing. I have issues with some of the things Morrissey has said but leaning right is not one of them. A lot of people used to be on the left, but the left has gone insane and made it impossible to support them and I think Morrissey may have expressed that sentiment.
 
There's nothing wrong with being right wing. I have issues with some of the things Morrissey has said but leaning right is not one of them. A lot of people used to be on the left, but the left has gone insane and made it impossible to support them and I think Morrissey may have expressed that sentiment.
Spare us the scum. Morrissey's right wing views are an embarassment. Johnny is the only left who is humanist, he will surely cry for childlren and women starving in Gaza.
 

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