"List of the Lost" review at Shocko

Thanks - that was a more entertaining review than the novel itself. A good read, with some interesting observations.

 

[Cicada]

KS an Cicada is the same person with different screen names, its obvious.

CG is right its a right load of steamy bollocks. if only Moz would listen to CG perhaps things wouldnt be going straight south for him instead he has steady snapping sam..

You are wrong but who are you?

 

[Cicada]

Well if I went to Morrissey's School of Literature she'd be summed up as HIS trademark of originality. All are here to represent HIM, they have no other purpose, all poets and artists and beatniks and pre-1979 musicians lived to serve and honor the AWESOMENESS and UNIQUENESS that is Morrissey and MORRISSEY ALONE. His self-obsession knows no bounds.

Marc Bolan would puke.

Tell me frankly why are you in here?

 

[Anonymous]

But Crystal ! Why won't you dance with me in the puckish puke of the mighty elf lord Mr.Feld ?

dont waste your time though you might just enjoy playing i guess. shes as phony as anything she claims to rail against or claims to be for. being brave enough to call others cowards takes some cheek though or just some basic nihilism. she reminds me of skinny who hates morrissey, his recent music yet spends time on a board dedicated to him to talk about his concern and dislike over having to frequent with biased fans while he continues to choose to spend his time around them never talking about mozs solo music just his love of the smiths and marr. again theyre as phony as the things they claim to rail against and not really worth the time caring about there posts

 

[CrystalGeezer]

I've had a walk, I've cooled off, I've resisted pursuing many angles...

Is he married to his lump of a mother or does he want to f*** her sans beth? While her grandson watches. Why didn't someone STOP this? I know the adage INCEST IS BEST, KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY is cute and all but this is NOT a book the band should be huddled around the cafe table reading.

 

[Anonymous]

The people who think every character in the book is Morrissey might be on to something.
Can anyone picture a woman, any woman, using the term "womb-men"???
You'd have to seriously hate your own kind. That's something only a complete misogynist would say. You can picture Morrissey pursing his lips and disdainfully forming the words...Woooomb-meeen...

And the tupperware repartie after strenuous sex? Like, seriously? Who would bother? Someone employed to verbally entertain? Damos the sparkling Greek domestique, perhaps?

I think Morrissey sees his characters as he sees people in real life. He just sees the purpose of their existence in relation to his. I reckon he does that even with his closest friends.
Nobody believes in his fiction characters, especially females. They're really just his mouthpieces.
People have also wondered why there is no physical description of Eliza: now: that must be because Morrissey thinks he looks fat in a dress.
And he does...Telling it like it is...

But true, there are more important problems.

 

[Anonymous]

And assuming a (fairly) normal woman gave a toss about Thatcher, which is unlikely to start with, she wouldn't say they "hate" her, straightaway.
They'd be more interested in determining what relationship she had with her dad, and shop owners in general, and authority, and power; what sort a woman was her mother; how Thatcher negotiated her relationships with other members of her party, men, and women. Why so many people hated her so much, how her role resonated in them, men, and women. If her politics were that bad (well I wasn't there). And who was responsible forthat dreadful hairstyle anyway?

Life is never as simple as "love" and "hate", you see.

Also, I've always thought of her face as angular, so that "boneless" bullshit was completely silly...Cameron has a boneless face.

 

[bhops]

I must admit... 'The book is a piece of shit written by a blackout drunk who flew too close to the sun '

is... hilarious.

But the rest ? ... Obviously your love for the MAN up there with Benny and the rest outshines
us all.






NOT.

You can actually pinpoint the exact moment CG turned on Morrissey as being when he publicly declared himself vegan while denouncing the evils of dairy. Poor old CG at the time still manfully chomping her way through a tub of cheese had no other choice but to come out swinging

 

[Anonymous]

You can actually pinpoint the exact moment CG turned on Morrissey as being when he publicly declared himself vegan while denouncing the evils of dairy. Poor old CG at the time still manfully chomping her way through a tub of cheese had no other choice but to come out swinging

Well I haven't renounced cheese either, Bebop. And yet...

Doesn't come in a tub. Who comes in a tub? Wouldn't ya like to know.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

You can actually pinpoint the exact moment CG turned on Morrissey as being when he publicly declared himself vegan while denouncing the evils of dairy. Poor old CG at the time still manfully chomping her way through a tub of cheese had no other choice but to come out swinging

- - - Updated - - -

dont waste your time though you might just enjoy playing i guess. shes as phony as anything she claims to rail against or claims to be for. being brave enough to call others cowards takes some cheek though or just some basic nihilism. she reminds me of skinny who hates morrissey, his recent music yet spends time on a board dedicated to him to talk about his concern and dislike over having to frequent with biased fans while he continues to choose to spend his time around them never talking about mozs solo music just his love of the smiths and marr. again theyre as phony as the things they claim to rail against and not really worth the time caring about there posts

' WHO CAN MAKE HITLER SEEM LIKE A BUS CONDUCTOR ? ' ... we know.

 

[Anonymous]

The people who think every character in the book is Morrissey might be on to something.
Can anyone picture a woman, any woman, using the term "womb-men"???
You'd have to seriously hate your own kind. That's something only a complete misogynist would say. You can picture Morrissey pursing his lips and disdainfully forming the words...Woooomb-meeen...

And the tupperware repartie after strenuous sex? Like, seriously? Who would bother? Someone employed to verbally entertain? Damos the sparkling Greek domestique, perhaps?

I think Morrissey sees his characters as he sees people in real life. He just sees the purpose of their existence in relation to his. I reckon he does that even with his closest friends.
Nobody believes in his fiction characters, especially females. They're really just his mouthpieces.
People have also wondered why there is no physical description of Eliza: now: that must be because Morrissey thinks he looks fat in a dress.
And he does...Telling it like it is...

But true, there are more important problems.

very true moz. the book is completely ridiculous. everybody hates judges. everybody hates the royals in boston even.
everybody talks in garbled british prose in boston. the whole episode is very embarrassing.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

The people who think every character in the book is Morrissey might be on to something.
Can anyone picture a woman, any woman, using the term "womb-men"???
You'd have to seriously hate your own kind. That's something only a complete misogynist would say. You can picture Morrissey pursing his lips and disdainfully forming the words...Woooomb-meeen...

And the tupperware repartie after strenuous sex? Like, seriously? Who would bother? Someone employed to verbally entertain? Damos the sparkling Greek domestique, perhaps?

I think Morrissey sees his characters as he sees people in real life. He just sees the purpose of their existence in relation to his. I reckon he does that even with his closest friends.
Nobody believes in his fiction characters, especially females. They're really just his mouthpieces.
People have also wondered why there is no physical description of Eliza: now: that must be because Morrissey thinks he looks fat in a dress.
And he does...Telling it like it is...

But true, there are more important problems.

'must be because Morrissey thinks he looks fat in a dress. And he does...'

Have you seen M in a 'dress' ? And how do you KNOW he thinks he looks fat in it? 'And he does' ?
what !? yeesh.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you seen M in a 'dress' ?

Have I?
Will I?
Wouldn't YOU like to know.

 

[Anonymous]

"But leaving aside the awful dialogue, the terrible plotting, the meaningless nonsense that fills every last polemic in the f***ing thing, the book still leaves you with a nasty, depressing sense of contempt. List of the Lost is a horrifying version of adolescence in which none of the nuance or balance of those years is remembered. There are none of the saving, relatable joys of self-doubt or good humour or even innocence. All we're left with are dead-set pretensions and rigid animosities which have been allowed to calcify into something altogether more sinister; a slanderous, one-note disgust with everyone and everything bar the fit, rippling tummy muscles of some running twats. "

I think re-posting the last paragraph of the review is important - as for me it sums up a lot of my negative feelings around Morrissey recently. A once charming man, who has gradually turned into a one-note, spiteful caricature of himself. Sadly, surrounded by money-hungry toadies, there doesn't seem to be anyone who can intervene, and make him realise just how badly he has gone wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

I think re-posting the last paragraph of the review is important - as for me it sums up a lot of my negative feelings around Morrissey recently.

Yes and it was rather splendidly summed up.
I don't know whether self doubt, good humour, and innocence have all completely abandoned Morrissey. What I think is more important is that his fans keep growing away from him if those feelings have, and even if they haven't. That might be the only way Morrissey is ever going to grow up, too.

A few of his fans, like this very articulate amusing young man, are a lot more advanced than him in life now, and keep overtaking him.
It mustn't be easy being an old Marathon Man, with nothing to look forward to now, except maybe meeting some dentist.

Thankfully, one can always choose to run away from all that, or stop running altogether.

 

[NealCassidy]

If you search for bulbous salvation on google images, you get Bobby Davro. Why is this?

 

[Anonymous]

If this person doesn't find self-doubt in the book I really that he read it PROPERLY. This is all I have to say.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Have I?
Will I?
Wouldn't YOU like to know.

well in that case...the pleasure would be yours... But only in your dreams, only in your dreams.

- - - Updated - - -

"But leaving aside the awful dialogue, the terrible plotting, the meaningless nonsense that fills every last polemic in the f***ing thing, the book still leaves you with a nasty, depressing sense of contempt. List of the Lost is a horrifying version of adolescence in which none of the nuance or balance of those years is remembered. There are none of the saving, relatable joys of self-doubt or good humour or even innocence. All we're left with are dead-set pretensions and rigid animosities which have been allowed to calcify into something altogether more sinister; a slanderous, one-note disgust with everyone and everything bar the fit, rippling tummy muscles of some running twats. "

I think re-posting the last paragraph of the review is important - as for me it sums up a lot of my negative feelings around Morrissey recently. A once charming man, who has gradually turned into a one-note, spiteful caricature of himself. Sadly, surrounded by money-hungry toadies, there doesn't seem to be anyone who can intervene, and make him realise just how badly he has gone wrong.

SO.... WHAT. why do you come here then ? If you feel this way. WHY..... DO..... YOU......COME...... HERE ?

 

[Anonymous]

It's absolutely fascinating for me. I can't think of anyone else whose work is searched THAT extremely for biographical references. Was Nick Cave attacked as a human being for having that horrible "asshole character" in his novel Bunny Munro? Had he been called names, personally, for views this character held in the book? I can't remember that. I remember reading some bad reviews at the time, mostly because it was so full of sex, but I can't remember that they vere vicious or hurtful and I can't remember critics who tried to outdo themselves with their reviews to gain attention. Mmmh ...

 

[Anonymous]

I can't think of anyone else whose work is searched THAT extremely for biographical references. Was Nick Cave attacked as a human being for having that horrible "asshole character" in his novel Bunny Munro? Had he been called names, personally, for views this character held in the book? I can't remember that.

I haven't read this Nick Cave book, so I cannot comment on that. However, with 'List of the Lost' EVERY character appears to be Morrissey. They all speak like him, they are all closeted gays, and they all go on random rants (sometimes for several pages at a time) about the meat industry, the royal family, judges etc. This is a novel where teenagers in 70's America bitch about how much they hate Margaret Thatcher BEFORE she was even Prime Minister, and hardly anyone would have had heard of her.

If Morrissey had managed to successfully hide his own voice, and come up with some varied characters with varied viewpoints, then no - people wouldn't be able to read 'List of the Lost' as anything other than fiction. But when so much of it is indistinguishable from the drunken vodka rants Morrissey posts on True to You, why should anyone think a line like "although the publicly confessed lust of the man must always be made to seem ridiculous and prepubescent, the lust of the women is at first childlike and desperate – as if they know there is something about which they know nothing… " isn't Morrissey's personal views?

This isn't a novel - it's a polemic on all the things Morrissey hates, with the skeleton of fictional plot trying desperately to hold it up.

 

[Detritus]

It's absolutely fascinating for me. I can't think of anyone else whose work is searched THAT extremely for biographical references. Was Nick Cave attacked as a human being for having that horrible "asshole character" in his novel Bunny Munro? Had he been called names, personally, for views this character held in the book? I can't remember that. I remember reading some bad reviews at the time, mostly because it was so full of sex, but I can't remember that they vere vicious or hurtful and I can't remember critics who tried to outdo themselves with their reviews to gain attention. Mmmh ...

Nick Cave's books contain a little bit of the author's personality, as many books do, but they are not absolutely smothered by it. They contain characters with distinct personalities, thoughts, motivations, and if there are any lessons to be imparted, then it is through the development of the plot and in the interactions between characters instead of through exposition. It is fairly easy to divorce the writer from the work, or at least to read it without thinking every character sounds like Nick Cave. This is not the case with List of the Lost.

No searching for biography is required in LOTL; it is so clearly an extension of Morrissey himself that anyone who cannot recognize this is either oblivious to Morrissey's history and espoused world view or feigning ignorance. And even if the former were true, any remotely perceptive reader would eventually pick up on an obvious trend in the text: the frequent polemics on the same subjects. If the bulk of the text weren't dedicated to frenzied rants on familiar Morrissey subjects, and if the characters (and narrator - there's no escape) weren't so one-dimensional, if they had some semblance of unique personalities instead of being automatons that all regurgitate Morrissey's very well-known and well-established opinions, then I dare say that critics and readers alike would be less inclined to speculate on Morrissey's pathology for writing it. They're not grasping at straws, rather they're being handed them in fistfuls. Could some be a little less vicious about it? Sure. But to not comment on the overwhelmingly Morrissey-esque quality of the book seems like a massive oversight.

As an aside, I'm beginning to wonder if any kind of criticism of this book will be tolerated by its apologists, never mind the reviews deemed too harsh or vindictive. Whenever someone expresses a negative opinion about the book, they are dismissed as being a hater, or jealous of Morrissey's supposed capability as a novelist, or being unable to "get it," regardless of what their objections may be or how articulately they are expressed. I've noticed this not just here, but in many other Morrissey fan hubs online. The idea that Morrissey may have written a bad novel is so distasteful, so unthinkable to some that they will rationalize and justify the book's merit to the point of utter foolishness. It's fine if you enjoy the book, love it, even sleep with it under your pillow every night and recite its passages daily. There are arguably things about it to enjoy. But this idea that if Morrissey produced it, it must be without fault is nonsense, and by refusing to acknowledge any validity in the criticism this is essentially what many apologists are doing. There's a reason the book's only ardent defenders are Morrissey fans; readers who are a little less biased are more inclined to acknowledge its many shortcomings.

One of the biggest tragedies of LOTL for me is that Morrissey, who has demonstrated time and again an astonishing gift for storytelling in the worlds and characters he creates in his lyrics, squandered the greatest opportunity in his career so far to exercise that gift by writing a book that largely throws character, setting and plot by the wayside to accommodate the same caustic, bitter rants he writes for TTY regularly. Maybe "he wrote the novel he wanted to write," as some of the book's defenders have asserted, but if that's a case it's a damn shame.