That's so Morrissey. 
Morrissey Self-Portrait (2007)
- Thread starter Playcat2000
- Start date
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Anonymous
Guest
Surely the boy that 'salts his fries' will wipe it with handrex, but I'm sure crystal will get to the bottom of it though
H
CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
I have a Bachelor's degree...in Science!
(Anyone else remember that on NPR? He said Master's degree.)
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Anonymous
Guest
"Choke on this Moz and veggie zealots"... Hmm. How does this invalidate ethical arguments?
Several other studies indicate that vegetarianism (especially veganism) is in many ways significantly healthier than omnivorism. When it comes to health stuff, there are always many truths.
To me all this is secondary. My reasons for being vegetarian are not that I think that meat-eating is unhealthy; I'm boycotting the meat industry because it's a morally bankrupt industry. I'm boycotting it because I find the way the industry treats animals, humans and the planet unacceptable. The meat industry is factory farming, and I'm not ok with factory farming, so I don't give my money to it. Quite simple, really.
To be healthy enough is enough for me. Personally, I've never been healthier and stronger. But even if I wasn't, I'd still boycott the animal industries because I care about others.
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Anonymous
Guest
"Choke on this Moz and veggie zealots"... Hmm. How does this invalidate ethical arguments?
Several other studies indicate that vegetarianism (especially veganism) is in many ways significantly healthier than omnivorism. When it comes to health stuff, there are always many truths.
To me all this is secondary. My reasons for being vegetarian are not that I think that meat-eating is unhealthy; I'm boycotting the meat industry because it's a morally bankrupt industry. I'm boycotting it because I find the way the industry treats animals, humans and the planet unacceptable. I'm not ok with factory farming, so I don't give my money to it.
To be healthy enough is enough for me. Personally, I've never been healthier and stronger. But even if I wasn't, I'd still boycott the animal industries because I care about its victims.
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Anonymous
Guest
Do you think that Morrissey is vegetarian for the health benefits?
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Anonymous
Guest
Come on crystal geek ! What's taking you so long on this matter of the mocha roll branding.
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CrystalGeezer
My secret's my enzyme.
I read minds, not bogroll preferences.
Choke on this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...-meat-better-health-lower-blood-pressure.html as well as 99,999% of studies on the subject. You simply can't run away from the fact that the great majority of us veggie zealots are healthy.
Most meat-eaters are healthy too. It's not about the health aspect. I'm happy knowing that I can treat others with respect without having to hurt myself in the process.
The people you see as your enemy here are just a bunch of imperfect people trying to do the right thing. No need for hate, my invalid friend.
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Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
Excellent link. I can't believe so many people fell for it.
Fell for what? (Seriously: if you're referring to the act of boycotting the meat industry, I'd like to understand your reasoning.)
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Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
Look at the date.
EDIT - although looking at it more closely now it does look legit. Oops.
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Yeah. It does seem like they came up with it. But if the study actually exists outside this particular article, somebody somewhere has f***ed up. Disturbing.
Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
Why has someone somewhere f***ed up if this study exists elsewhere? (It does, by the way.)
It appears the study is pretty weak and doesn't draw any strong conclusions beyond the fact that more studies need to be conducted. It doesn't try to establish causation and I would hazard a (possibly controversial) guess to say that vegetarians are more prone to mental illness because they are likely to be self-aware individuals who take their own moral stand seriously (assuming they are vegetarians for moral reasons). It's a generalisation without any basis whatsoever to say (but I'll say it anyway) that these people are probably inward looking people with perhaps a heightened sense of environmental and animal husbandry realities. Is it any wonder that self interested people are susceptible to inward looking illnesses?
It should also be noted that the study was of 1320 Austrians. it didn't look at calorific intake or examine what sort of nutrition the subjects ate. Could they all have poor diets? Unlikely, but who knows?
Interesting about the cancer link though.
Because two completely contrary realities cannot exist at the same time. (Or can they?) I've read dozens of studies indicating that vegetarian diets are beneficial especially because they decrease risk for cancer and heart disease (etc). This study claims that vegetarian diets increase risks for basically everything they're supposed to be decreasing. Either all the previous studies have been wrong, or this one's wrong. Somebody has f***ed up.
Anyway, one explanation seems to be that many people go vegetarian hoping it might help with pre-existing health issues.
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Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
That's certainly one explanation. I'm not sure I believe it though. It seems they also muddied the water in how they defined a vegetarian. They counted pescetarians as vegetarians which may have had an impact especially as the sample size of 'vegetarians' was only 330.
Not all cancer is equal and what may cause one, might decrease the incidence of another. The study doesn't go into detail which cancer exactly. Skin cancer? Who knows? It is one study. It will be interesting to see the outcome if it is peer reviewed and if others take up the baton and more light is shone on it.
But it concludes that vegetarians have a poorer quality of life, are more prone to suffer allergies, more likely to be on medication and suffer from nutritional deficits. I think it's probably true that most vegans and vegetarians are probably not getting their daily dose of B12 unless they are eating foods fortified with the stuff or a supplement. Being deficient in this this can lead to make you more prone to heart disease. So while the saturated animal fats may not get you, your blood's health might. A deficiency in its extreme can also lead to nerve and brain damage.
Well, at the moment the data indicating that there are strong health benefits in veg*nism seems pretty overwhelming. (Not that the health benefits of anything are really my cup of tea. I'm quite indifferent when it comes to health aspects.)
"I think it's probably true that most vegans and vegetarians are probably not getting their daily dose of B12 ---" As far as I know, this is not the case.
Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
Oh really? That's good news. How do you know this?
I know literally hundreds (if not thousands) of vegans and vegetarians, and I've never heard of anyone not getting enough B12.
But really, I'm not an expert when it comes to stuff like this. Becoming a vegetarian had absolutely no (negative or positive) impact on my health, so I haven't exactly been researching the subject.
realitybites
making lemonade
That study did not claim vegetarian diets led those people to have greater heath issues. It stated that those in the study who self-identify as vegetarian had greater health issues. Why? Which came first, poor health led them to become vegetarians? Or diet caused the health problems? It seems to be the former. Those with allergies tried a veg diet to combat them. Those who oppose vaccines also oppose eating meat. Seems it is a case for the veggie lifestyle/mindset being the correlation here and not the diet itself.
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Iona Mink
Despitemybetterjudgement
It's great if the vegans you knew had adequate B12 levels. Like I said though, they'd have to be taking some sort of supplement or eating a fortified food as B12 can only be found in animal products.
For the audience watching at home, here are a few links on the subject.
http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/b12.aspx
https://www.vegsoc.org/B12
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/263626.php
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