Off-topic discussion thread / moved as clogging other threads

The way I heard it was they pumped his stomach and there was enough semen in there that they estimated at least 8 men were involved.
Had a similar incident at my birthday last year.
I can remember being in secondary school 1981, when this story was doing the rounds,
We heard that he did in fact have his stomach pumped, and apparently it was a pints worth.
In the words of Rodney Stewart…….
Some guys have all the luck 😁
 
theres the marianne faithful mars bar story as well,these stories were before the internet so they spread word of mouth up and down the country.
 

Initially I skim-read this article, with its unusual Morrissey mention, but then I looked again, and now I rate it more highly. It makes some great points about delusions, whether individiual or social. Do those hosting the virtual world operate from a rationale of their own? How much more badly than his peers was this guy behaving? Who understands what's really going on, whether with e-currency or AI or other robotic intrusions into our once safe and happy analogue lives?


Bankman-Fried was wrong, but I sympathize with him​

Nina McCambridge, April 8, 2024, 6 minutes
Editorials featured in the Forum section are solely the opinions of their individual authors:

I tend to feel bad for high-profile, white-collar criminals. Admitting this probably reflects poorly on me, and I of course think that stealing and lying are wrong and should and will continue to be against the law. However, I found that I was relieved when Sam Bankman-Fried didn’t get a life sentence. Perhaps this is because he seems like someone I’d know. My high school friend liked to tell us about how her parents were friends with Bankman-Fried’s parents — this was before the news began to focus on the complicity of the parents. I was not born like Bankman-Fried (I always appreciated style) but I was inducted into the regional subculture that produced him. I, too, am from the Bay Area. I, too, like math. Here’s something that differentiates us:

Bankman-Fried didn’t like decorum. He dressed badly. He played video games while talking to people. Was it the case that he had no appreciation for aesthetics (as he said), or was it the case that a seeming forgoance of aesthetics was his preferred aesthetic?

Bankman-Fried described himself as someone who does not take pleasure in life experiences, an anhedonic. I am not sure whether this is true or whether he was trying to be edgy. While the former case is an appealing thing for us to believe — it would make him less like ourselves — it seems like a common enough teenaged countersignal. (Consider Morrissey singing about how he wishes he could feel anything at all, when obviously he is a very emotional person.) At least, he either was an anhedonic or he was attempting to become one.

Bankman-Fried was optimizing his life towards something. Most of us are not so self-conscious. We have a great variety of values that often conflict. There are a few ways of dealing with this. One is not to examine our values, lying to ourselves about them or perhaps not thinking about them at all. This is what most of us do, and it ends up working out decently well. If you just do what seems normal, you will have normal outcomes.

The world is full of suffering. The world is full of existential risk. Think about this too much and it will drive you crazy. Most people don’t really care about what’s going on outside of their community. This makes sense, because most people have no way of predictably, substantially affecting whatever’s happening far away. Some people, like Fried, don’t think they have to remain helpless in the face of material evil. They have come up with a method that might actually be predictable and substantial.

After you’ve come up with something like this, what else matters? If you can help people on a global scale, what does it matter if you are harming people on a local scale? What does it matter if you aren’t following any of the old laws? Those laws were made with the assumption that no one could be as powerful as you currently are.

Most of us, of course, distrust that such magical methods exist, because radical changes are usually fundamentally ephemeral. Maybe Fried had a grand unified utility function and probability function which he actually used. Most of us don’t find that very comforting. We learned that he was stealing, and we all know that more important than any charity work is the law: Stealing is wrong.

This law makes things better in general. It probably shows up in a lot of specific metrics; I’m sure that if you took two identical countries and made it legal to steal in one of them, their GDP would fall and so on relative to the other country. This isn’t why we decided that it’s wrong to steal. This law just seemed right, so we kept following it — this law is far more fundamental than any metric.

Optimizing too hard can make things really horrible. Our values are too inscrutable for this to work. Fried probably knew a similar argument in the context of AI safety.

I am often frustrated that we enforce a lot of laws very selectively. If you didn’t want to enforce the law in that particular case, why didn’t you just amend the law? Of course, in our republic, laws are done by committee, so you don’t always get what you want. But even if you were a dictator, you wouldn’t be intelligent enough to have perfect foresight into all the little moral situations and unintended consequences of your law. You would still end up being selective. In fact, you would be much more selective than any liberal government, which is designed for relative universality. However, this sort of thing only applies to laws that aren’t extremely fundamental. It takes a lot more chutzpah to excuse a murder than a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

If you read through the entire legal code of your government and found yourself convinced that all of it was good, even if you had trust that the government and its laws would remain stable and good, you would likely still opt out of the government putting cameras in your kitchen. You’re a law-abiding citizen and generally appreciate state capacity (right?), but you don’t want the government to be perfectly optimized.

Something similar can happen with your values. Introspection and non-hypocrisy are usually good. If you apply them too zealously to the strange values that you chose with your own grand intelligence, you might end up much worse off than if you didn’t think about it at all. Maybe not — society is often wrong. (In the case of Bankman-Fried, society is definitely correct: No scamming allowed!)

Does any of this mean anything? Does it bear relation to Bankman-Fried’s error? Was Bankman-Fried actually trying to be effective? I am not sure. He definitely made a lot of effective charity contributions. He also made a lot of strange and inefficient-seeming donations; he donated vast sums of money to Democratic politicians and then later claimed to have also donated to Republican politicians. He donated to high-profile but meaningless projects.

He did give villainous monologues justifying these choices in the name of public relations. Was this necessary to his charitable goals? Perhaps these donations were motivated by similar urges — to increase his standing in the eyes of two different charitable subcultures. This is much more human: To be driven by decorum. Still, with the aesthetics of optimization, you might get to the same bad end anyways.
- https://the-tartan.org/2024/04/08/bankman-fried-was-wrong-but-i-sympathize-with-him/
 
@nicky wire's legs long time no see 🙃
What's up? How are you? My sister has decided she doesn't like blur etc. Anymore and has started listening to Taylor Swift. How's your life?
 
Turns out the extreme missionary zeal Bankman-Fried exhibited is actually quite characteristic of those with lead roles in Big Tech. About 2 mins, and then 19 mins in here, is an explanation for why people in this field often believe they're doing good by exploiting as many other people as they possibly can get away with doing

 
Name-calling happens frequently here. Have you not yourself addressed Malarkey in the way you say she addressed you? But you go farther, to the point of personal abuse. And yet you are still here, and she's barred, for now. So that preferential decision-making is quite interesting.

Yes, I did call her a Nazi. It was after she said sufficient evidence for my Nazism was: her thinking I'm a Nazi, despite me providing evidence to the contrary. By throwing the charge back at her, I was trying to show the absurdity of it all. If she had just been rhetorically "name-calling," I'd let it slide. But she wasn't. She meant it sincerely.

I don't know where you're getting that I abused her personally. Everything I said about her (that she's uncharitable, paranoiac, and a calumniator) are facts about her. If you can't see this, then I can't help you.
 
@nicky wire's legs long time no see 🙃
What's up? How are you? My sister has decided she doesn't like blur etc. Anymore and has started listening to Taylor Swift. How's your life?
What?! That's a bad trade! I've started to like blur--sort of. The music isn't especially good but i like the spirit of it and the band members (particularly dreamyalex!! :hearteyes: )

Things are OKAY around here. I wish I had more money, mainly! How are things with you, darling girl?! You looking forward to summer?
 
What?! That's a bad trade! I've started to like blur--sort of. The music isn't especially good but i like the spirit of it and the band members (particularly dreamyalex!! :hearteyes: )

Things are OKAY around here. I wish I had more money, mainly! How are things with you, darling girl?! You looking forward to summer?
I am so looking forward to summer!!!

But it is a terrible trade and it made things really awful for me. But blur isn't the only band she liked, she also liked Trashcan Sinatras, Crowded House, Cast, & Aztec Camera. But suddenly she flipped. I don't get it. Haha I cried so much I felt kind of sick.

Lately I just work & write poems & sleep too much.
 

i used to eat lobster so I’m not innocent, but that was cruel of this inventor to boil that lobster. I stopped watching his creativity after i saw him do that, groovy music and all. It stopped being groovy at that point for me. Very inventive, but calculatingly cruel too.
 
I didn’t watch it, just thought the thumbnail looked interesting.
 
Yeh, she's nothing more than a wealthy groupie who got lucky, imo. The fact that she's proud of sleeping with loads of rock stars doesn't exactly make her an endearing figure.

My mam said it wasn't easy, all that groupie-ing. She's got a bad back from all that lying down, repetitive strain injury in her right wrist, and says food doesn't taste "right". Don't know what she means ;)
 
My mam said it wasn't easy, all that groupie-ing. She's got a bad back from all that lying down, repetitive strain injury in her right wrist, and says food doesn't taste "right". Don't know what she means ;)
Lol, I'm sure it wasn't easy! Well, easy in some ways and not in others...
 
A HAIKU - ABOUT GOING ON HOLIDAY
A few days away
My guts are in a right state
Too much foreign food
 
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