Ouch (>_<) woman attacked Pope Benedict XVI

[Flax]

The misery of the people has less to do with how religious they are compared to how religious their Government is. Or more to the point, how much that Government is prepared to use religion as an excuse to shit on the people.

In the civilised world, Governments don't use religion as much, less so now they've got a new stick to beat people with; the stick called climate change.

I will deduce from that that you do not live in the US. And you probably never even visited the US.

 

[down_in_albion]

The misery of the people has less to do with how religious they are compared to how religious their Government is. Or more to the point, how much that Government is prepared to use religion as an excuse to shit on the people.

In the civilised world, Governments don't use religion as much, less so now they've got a new stick to beat people with; the stick called climate change.

One of these two things is scientifically observable.

 

[Scarlet Ibis]

We love Rock Band 1 and 2 but were very disappointed by Beatles Rock Band. The inclusion of the hit singles "Boys" (WTF?) and "Octopus' Garden" shows they don't really care about us the consumer. Also, I always knew Ringo's drumming was so-so, but trying to duplicate it beat for beat shows you it's also bizarre and illogical. We'll probably still buy the extra downloadable content and see if that makes the game more fun.

It made me so mad I wanted to attack the Pope.

DO IT! DO IT!

I think I had more faith in it because of Dahni Harrison's involvement. Oh, Dahni... Why? WHY?!

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

I will deduce from that that you do not live in the US. And you probably never even visited the US.

I have been to the US, I don't consider it to be part of 'the civilised world'.

And even if it was, the Democrats are in now... you can bet your life religion will take a back seat to climate change very very quickly indeed.

Incidentally, who are you to know where I have visited or not visited?

 

[jamescagney]

DO IT! DO IT!

Do what? Do what? Buy the extra Beatles Rock Band songs? Or attack the Pope?

If I don't hear from you in the next 30 minutes, I'll assume the latter and act accordingly.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

One of these two things is scientifically observable.

That may be true but even if it wasn't (and all the Governments knew it wasn't), that still wouldn't stop them using it as an excuse to TAX TAX TAX people to death.

And I do mean 'to death' because there will be people dying this winter because they can afford to eat & afford to heat their homes but not both.

Any proper Government wouldn't use climate change as an excuse to let the energy companies take the piss out of the lot of us.

In conclusion, religion may be bad but (for the most part) they're not IN CHARGE in the civilised world & this entire debate takes time away from the revolution we so desparately need.

 

[Flax]

I have been to the US, I don't consider it to be part of 'the civilised world'.

And even if it was, the Democrats are in now... you can bet your life religion will take a back seat to climate change very very quickly indeed.

Give me one example of a highly religious, yet civilized and peaceful nation.
Just one.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Give me one example of a highly religious, yet civilized and peaceful nation.
Just one.

Tibet.

 

[down_in_albion]

That may be true but even if it wasn't (and all the Governments knew it wasn't), that still wouldn't stop them using it as an excuse to TAX TAX TAX people to death.

And I do mean 'to death' because there will be people dying this winter because they can afford to eat & afford to heat their homes but not both.

Any proper Government wouldn't use climate change as an excuse to let the energy companies take the piss out of the lot of us.

In conclusion, religion may be bad but (for the most part) they're not IN CHARGE in the civilised world & this entire debate takes time away from the revolution we so desparately need.

Well that's a mish-mash of different things but ho-hum. First off what extra tax do you pay due to the current awareness of climate change? Second how is the global economic downturn, which is responsible for the job losses and social spending debt in the UK which is the cause of much of the suffering this winter have to do with climate change policy?

And about that revolution? yeah it's OK actually I'll pass.

 

[jamescagney]

And even if it was, the Democrats are in now... you can bet your life religion will take a back seat to climate change very very quickly indeed.

Good! As it should be. I'd rather address a real problem than an imaginary one. Even the official EPA web site under GWB acknowledged that climate change is real.

Regardless of what you may have heard, the EPA site and most all scientists have long agreed that climate change is real. The only part that is really seriously being debated *by qualified scientists* is whether humans are the biggest contributor, or merely a contributor.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/

And how the heck could that possibly matter?? If all scientists are in agreement that the climate is heading towards species extinction, does it matter where exactly human contribution ranks? Just freaking fix it already, regardless of the cause!

 

[down_in_albion]

Tibet.

Tibet, pre-China, was a feudal monarchy with one of the greatest gaps between the rich and the poor in the world. The vast swathe of the population lived in grinding poverty while the llamas lived in palaces lined with gold.

 

[down_in_albion]

Good! As it should be. I'd rather address a real problem than an imaginary one. Even the official EPA web site under GWB acknowledged that climate change is real.

Regardless of what you may have heard, the EPA site and most all scientists have long agreed that climate change is real. The only part that is really seriously being debated *by qualified scientists* is whether humans are the biggest contributor, or merely a contributor.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/

And how the heck could that possibly matter?? If all scientists are in agreement that the climate is heading towards species extinction, does it matter where exactly human contribution ranks? Just freaking fix it already, regardless of the cause!

Thank you.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Well that's a mish-mash of different things but ho-hum. First off what extra tax do you pay due to the current awareness of climate change? Second how is the global economic downturn, which is responsible for the job losses and social spending debt in the UK which is the cause of much of the suffering this winter have to do with climate change policy?

And about that revolution? yeah it's OK actually I'll pass.

What extra tax is paid in the name of climate change? Well, petrol for a start.

I mentioned why the suffering this winter is due to climate change policy. It's because the energy companies make people pay through the ass just to heat their houses & the Government won't do a damn thing about it because they say high prices encourage people to use less energy. The econimic downturn makes it harder for those who have lost their jobs, to heat their homes. People with jobs are also struggling because energy prices are an obscneity.

Pensioners haven't had jobs for years but many of them can't afford to heat their homes. That the Government can't afford to increase Winter Fuel Payments is due to the recession, that they need Winter Fuel Allowance at all is not.

 

[jamescagney]

That may be true but even if it wasn't (and all the Governments knew it wasn't), that still wouldn't stop them using it as an excuse to TAX TAX TAX people to death.

And I do mean 'to death' because there will be people dying this winter because they can afford to eat & afford to heat their homes but not both.

Not so. The Democrats generally favor programs to aid low income families. It's the Republicans who cut aid programs. The Republicans also cut Federal income tax, but that does zero to help the poorest families who are exempt from paying much at all in taxes anyways. Poor families might save a few bucks in taxes, while billions go to the top 1 percent.

Meanwhile, the poor families got hit by rising taxes at the state level, when the Bush federal government cut financial aid and programs to states. Right now states don't have enough to continue paying unemployment benefits and are having to raise taxes or cut benefits to the poor during the cold winter months, due to the spending policies of the previous administration. So lowering federal taxes in the way the Bush administration did it actually hurt poor people, rather than the opposite. Gore had quite a good program of targeted tax cuts for businesses, using tax cuts as an incentive to reward sound energy practices, rather than as a cash giveaway to everyone.

Any proper Government wouldn't use climate change as an excuse to let the energy companies take the piss out of the lot of us.

I'm confused. With GWB and Cheney in charge (two men heavily involved in oil), the oil companies and Enron for two profited wildly and generally got what they wanted, due to energy company staff being appointed to key administration posts and being invited to energy meetings with Cheney.

The ultimate example of what you're talking about is when Halliburton, under Cheney a few years before being elected, profited wildly from the government of Myanmar (Burma) forcing children to dig to install an oil pipeline, using armed militia to keep the kids in line.

http://www.google.com/search?q=myanmar+halliburton

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Good! As it should be. I'd rather address a real problem than an imaginary one. Even the official EPA web site under GWB acknowledged that climate change is real.

Regardless of what you may have heard, the EPA site and most all scientists have long agreed that climate change is real. The only part that is really seriously being debated *by qualified scientists* is whether humans are the biggest contributor, or merely a contributor.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/fq/

And how the heck could that possibly matter?? If all scientists are in agreement that the climate is heading towards species extinction, does it matter where exactly human contribution ranks? Just freaking fix it already, regardless of the cause!

But they're not going to fix it! They're going to take my money, your money & everyone elses money & do f*** all with it.

It's not even what they're doing actually, it's what they're not doing. In the UK at least, they're not providing companies with incentives to let people who are able to work from home, they're not providing incentives at all. In pretty much every policy, it's all stick & no carrots.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Not so. The Democrats generally favor programs to aid low income families...

Oh sorry, I was talking about the UK Government taxing people to death. Yeah, Democrats are definitley better than Republicans, I didn't mean to suggest I thought otherwise.

 

[Flax]

Tibet.

Tibet, pre-China, was a feudal monarchy with one of the greatest gaps between the rich and the poor in the world. The vast swathe of the population lived in grinding poverty while the llamas lived in palaces lined with gold.

Yes.
But let's give Emotional Guide Dog another chance.

I'll help you. Here is a list of the most religious countries in the world. Could you pick one tell us what's great about their quality of life?

• Egypt 100%
• Bangladesh 99%
• Sri Lanka 98%
• Indonesia 98%
• Congo 98%
• Sierra Leone 98%
• Malawi 98%
• Senegal 98%
• Djibouti 98%
• Morocco 98%
• United Arab Emirates 98%

 

[jamescagney]

But they're not going to fix it! They're going to take my money, your money & everyone elses money & do f*** all with it.

*EDIT* Aha, I shouldn't have assumed we were both talking about the US.

In the US at least, I don't think much federal tax money will be required to fix global warming in the US, because the main part of the fix is that private entities need to change their ways. With emissions "cap and trade," and the plan Gore proposed, climate change could actually earn federal revenue and lessen the burden on individuals, by taxing businesses that don't comply.

In 1999 the Clinton / Gore administration had a plan that almost everyone agreed with worldwide. Little known fact, the Kyoto Treaty was actually eventually signed and ratified by enough countries (once Russia signed) so that it should have taken effect. I believe the world didn't bother enforcing it not because there was worldwide disagreement or failure to ratify, but because without the US playing ball, there wasn't much point in less wealthy countries working to fix our problem while we profited.

 

[jamescagney]

Yes.
But let's give Emotional Guide Dog another chance.

I'll help you. Here is a list of the most religious countries in the world. Could you pick one tell us what's great about their quality of life?

• United Arab Emirates 98%

I thought the people in the UAE were religious, but also enjoyed a fairly Westernized and wealthy lifestyle.

 

[down_in_albion]

What extra tax is paid in the name of climate change? Well, petrol for a start.

I mentioned why the suffering this winter is due to climate change policy. It's because the energy companies make people pay through the ass just to heat their houses & the Government won't do a damn thing about it because they say high prices encourage people to use less energy. The econimic downturn makes it harder for those who have lost their jobs, to heat their homes. People with jobs are also struggling because energy prices are an obscneity.

Pensioners haven't had jobs for years but many of them can't afford to heat their homes. That the Government can't afford to increase Winter Fuel Payments is due to the recession, that they need Winter Fuel Allowance at all is not.

Unless you propose the government nationalise the fuel companies I fail to see what they can really do about it. The national debt of this country is massive and the fuel we use is imported, and ultimately finite so fuel prices are rising and will continue to regardless of what the government do. This is just simple supply and demand. Unless we put money into alternative fuel sources, which is only possible with international cooperation and an increase in the green agenda, there won't be any fuel to buy anyway.