What do Moz fans think about 'Notre Dame'?

[gashonthenail]

I just really hope that the rest of BOT doesn't sound autotuned to hell and back like Rebels Without Applause...

Yes, the production on RWA was odd. Is that what he meant by 'sabotage'?

 

[Lucifer Sam]

Yes, the production on RWA was odd. Is that what he meant by 'sabotage'?

I think Iggy Pop said in an interview that Morrissey liked the producer, Andrew Watt, and recommended him to Pop. Morrissey was calling Bonfire "the best album of his career," so he must've been satisfied with the results. The only way the odd sound of Rebels would be an act of sabotage is if Capitol re-mixed it (post-Watt) to make it sound bad.

But I doubt that. Watt produced the new Rolling Stones album, and the single, Angry, has a similar compressed sound, and while not as auto-tuned-sounding as Rebels, it sounds like Mick Jagger's vocals were run through a fuzz-box something (like Brett Anderson's singing on Trash, whatever that studio effect is).

 

[Mozzer1980]

 

[Mozzer1980]

don’t like the vocals? why not?

It's very hard to explain. I'd have to use abusive words . And do you like it?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

It's very hard to explain. I'd have to use abusive words .

hmmm? ok.

And do you like it?

Yeah, but I’ve been listening to Morrissey for years though. So it’s nice he’s chosen a producer that will do something interesting with his vocals for a change. And I could only imagine Morrissey happily signing off
on final mix. Can’t wait to hear the rest of the album.

 

[Mozzer1980]

hmmm? ok.


Yeah, but I’ve been listening to Morrissey for years though. So it’s nice he’s chosen a producer that will do something interesting with his vocals for a change.

Hmmmm, ok ...

I have a completely different opinion. Morrissey's voice (beautiful voice, I think we agree here ) was butchered. In this video, where we only have the vocals, you can hear it perfectly. Morrissey's vocals have never sounded so bad. It's just a piece of shit, not "something interesting ".

 

[Mozzer1980]

As for the thread we're in, I like Notre Dame very much, I agree with what @Mozzypaws wrote here . I don't think that Morrissey in the lyrics of the song prejudges what happened in Paris, but he attacks political correctness, which is the gangrene of the modern world.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Hmmmm, ok ...

I have a completely different opinion.

don’t we all.

Morrissey's voice (beautiful voice, I think we agree here ) was butchered. In this video, where we only have the vocals, you can hear it perfectly.

Yeah, I wouldn’t call that ‘butchering’. I call it effect processing, music production.

Morrissey's vocals have never sounded so bad.

Really? I think some of his early Smiths demos, it sounds a bit rough.

It's just a piece of shit, not "something interesting ".

No. It’s interesting. And I can’t wait to hear the album. Really hope the rest of it is just as adventurous!

Joe Chiccarelli’s vocal production is ‘perfect’ to a fault, and to my ear, a little boring. Luckily, Morrissey’s unique voice is incorruptible, no matter what’s done to it.




…and btw, if anyone wants to hear what auto-tune actually sounds like on a isolated vocal ….




the strongest (what seems intentional) effect on Morrissey’s isolated vocal that I can hear, is some tremolo or vibrato effect, and maybe some hard filtering,E.Q.
A person posting anonymously, once pointed out that some vocal time stretching may have been used for some reason, which might make it sound off at a point or two.

Sorry to disappoint the people that thought auto-tune was used on the song.

 

[Mozzer1980]

don’t we all.

Yeah, I wouldn’t call that ‘butchering’. I call it effect processing, music production.

Really? I think some of his early Smiths demos, it sounds a bit rough.


No. It’s interesting. And I can’t wait to hear the album. Really hope the rest of it is just as adventurous!

Joe Chiccarelli’s vocal production is ‘perfect’ to a fault, and to my ear, a little boring. Luckily, Morrissey’s unique voice is incorruptible, no matter what’s done to it.




…and btw, if anyone wants to hear what auto-tune actually sounds like on a isolated vocal ….




the strongest (what seems intentional) effect on Morrissey’s isolated vocal that I can hear, is some tremolo or vibrato effect, and maybe some hard filtering,E.Q.
A person posting anonymously, once pointed out that some vocal time stretching may have been used for some reason, which might make it sound off at a point or two.

Sorry to disappoint the people that thought auto-tune was used on the song.

But I have to tell you, this is one of two musical things about Morrissey that I don't like. Second one is duet with Thelma Houston . So I'm not that bad.
In a way, your uncritical adoration for all things related to Morrissey is fascinating.
But your opinions are mostly quite rational, so you're not that bad either

 

[Anonymous]

He needs to issue 'Notre Dame' as a Record Store Day single, with a cover of Billy Joel's 'We Didn't Start the Fire' on the B -Side.

 

[brody]

https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/s/tk6gDWxhS8

Don’t know if this was shared here at the time. This is a Reddit thread of audio producers discussing the sound of Rebels.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

‘audio producers’ lol

 

[general disarray]

If you doubt it, look up how many attacks on churches there has been in France over the last five or ten years, look on Safari or Jeevs aswell as Google. There was also the attack on a small village fait in France by Islamists, yes they were young but the were reported to say they were going to kill the Christians

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Regardless of the terrible lyrics, which make the song completely unsuitable for radio airplay,
the music doesn't look good on him. It reminds me of the LIHS Expanded Edition experiments, which all lead to nowhere.

Agree with you. It’s not Alain Whyte’s finest
writing.

The Manzur and Tobias songs we’ve heard so far, are better in comparison.

Let’s hope the other co-writes with Alain are better.

 

[Phranc & Open]

Agree with you. It’s not Alain Whyte’s finest
writing.

The Manzur and Tobias songs we’ve heard so far, are better in comparison.

Let’s hope the other co-writes with Alain are better.

I see it more as Whyte has offered a lot of songs and certainly a lot of them in the classic style, because he knows what we old people want to hear. The fact that Morrissey chose this "cool groove" is unfortunately more of a problem for our protagonist, who doesn't have the best hand with music at the moment. Alain Whyte made "WMTWD" live solo into what it is: a classic Morrissey sing-along from 91. And the Tobias compopsition? 70s US funk? No, that doesn't fit either.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I see it more as Whyte has offered a lot of songs and certainly a lot of them in the classic style, because he knows what we old people want to hear. The fact that Morrissey chose this "cool groove" is unfortunately more of a problem for our protagonist, who doesn't have the best hand with music at the moment.

Don’t know about that. I think you’re underestimating Alain’s song writing skills. And even Alain, though a guitarist, can see that the artists he’s co-writing with are competing in a market that’s broader in genres and not just rockabilly or what he’s written in the past. Which is why he may have offered the ‘cool groove’ to Morrissey.

Alain Whyte made "WMTWD" live solo into what it is: a classic Morrissey sing-along from 91.

And the Tobias compopsition? 70s US funk? No, that doesn't fit either.

What do you mean it doesn’t fit?

Why would a ‘Morrissey sing-along from 91’
fit into, or even be appropriate for where Morrissey seems to be in 23’-24’?

 

[Phranc & Open]

Don’t know about that. I think you’re underestimating Alain’s song writing skills. And even Alain, though a guitarist, can see that the artists he’s co-writing with are competing in a market that’s broader in genres and not just rockabilly or what he’s written in the past. Which is why he may have offered the ‘cool groove’ to Morrissey.




What do you mean it doesn’t fit?

Why would a ‘Morrissey sing-along from 91’
fit into, or even be appropriate for where Morrissey seems to be in 23’-24’?

Of course I don't underestimate Alain's qualities, even if I don't like "Notre Dame" at all. So Morrissey should compete in markets and therefore adapt his music to the Zeitgeist? The non-conformist should sound adjusted in order to be better received? Everyone, apart from a very few like you, would like to have roughly the sound that made him so irresistible in 83-97. Sure, you can try things out, but records like LIHS and WPINOYB don't really work when you look back at his entire oeuvre now. Of course, you're free to see it differently.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

…Everyone, apart from a very few like you, would like to have roughly the sound that made him so irresistible in 83-97. Sure, you can try things out, but records like LIHS and WPINOYB don't really work when you look back at his entire oeuvre now. Of course, you're free to see it differently.

 

[Vesper Nocturne]

Is that like, “everyone” in Germany? Everyone on this site? Everyone in the audience? Or everyone in your HEAD?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Of course I don't underestimate Alain's qualities, even if I don't like "Notre Dame" at all. So Morrissey should compete in markets and therefore adapt his music to the Zeitgeist? The non-conformist should sound adjusted in order to be better received?

Of course we don’t wish our favorite artists to do so. But to an extent Morrissey has, on his own terms, accepted that it’s alright to have a song with a groove, but a groove with a difference, that difference being what he brings to the song, which fortunately or unfortunately will not make it as commercially successful as he wants it. Lol.

Even in the early 90’s you can’t tell me that Morrissey wasn’t influenced by the Madchester scene to use music like Interesting Drug, November, Journalists Who Lie, in hopes that there would be some crossover connection with
younger music listeners.

But as far as Morrissey’s recent output ( though even Quarry period with his welcoming of keyboards and more synth sounds in his recordings) I think he’s always shown to be evolving and trying out other genres, because he just wants to move on (in part out of boredom) and also not wanting to be put in a box, letting others dictate what his sound is.

Everyone, apart from a very few like you, would like to have roughly the sound that made him so irresistible in 83-97.

that’s just sad. I love those songs, and will gravitate to them more often, that’s what the recordings are for.
But artists need to evolve for the sake of their own sanity, it has nothing to do with what his fans want or should expect from him.

Sure, you can try things out, but records like LIHS and WPINOYB don't really work when you look back at his entire oeuvre now. Of course, you're free to see it differently.

They don’t work if you compare and expect the artist to continually repeat themselves ad nauseam.

But in reality, how much has Morrissey’s music direction really changed? Once he adds his voice, it’s always going to be a Morrissey song. Even he can’t change that.