What Would a 5th Smiths Studio Album Have Been Like?

[Young And Alive]

Just assuming that Morrissey had been fine with Marr taking THAT holiday post-Strangeways, and let him record with other artists for a few months. And just assuming that during this time, the group found a good manager which they all liked who took away much of the workload from Marr. Let's imagine that The Smiths stayed together, released "Stop Me" in early '88 in the UK (after the Hungerford thing had passed) and that after a wonderful TOTP appearance the song went straight in at #1.

Now it's the spring of Hatey-Hate. The group are back in the studio recording their fifth studio album, which Morrissey has entitled "Education in Reverse". What became (in real life) the backdrop for Moz's 1991 tour (you know, the picture of Harvey Keitel) has been used as the artwork.

What tracks would be on it and what would they sound like? I believe that Morrissey wrote a few Viva Hate era tracks during the dying embers of The Smiths days, so presumably they'd appear on the album.

I also imagine that Marr would begin using more electronic music, as he did on the, er...Electronic records. I wonder what this would have been like alongside Morrissey's vocals? And what of Rourke and Joyce? Would they have still been in the group do we think?

 

[Mr. Springheeled]

This all sounds like the end of an episode of "SOAP".
Remember that show?

In any case I have no idea but that was an excellent question.

 

[bysshe]

This all sounds like the end of an episode of "SOAP".
Remember that show?

In any case I have no idea but that was an excellent question.

I love Burt.

 

[Jukebox Jury]

Confused?
You will be

Post Marr - Morrissey, Mike & Andy along with Ivor Perry did record a 'Clash style' demo version of 'Bengali In Platforms'.

Jukebox Jury

 

[WinkWink]

Viva hate

 

[stux]

Hasn't Marr been quoted as saying the follow up material would have been the more mellow anthem stuff like Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me?

I don't know how he described the music but he did say it would be like Last Night I Dreamt...

I can't imagine it would have sounded anything like Viva Hate!

 

[Ethan Poe]

Confused?
You will be

Post Marr - Morrissey, Mike & Andy along with Ivor Perry did record a 'Clash style' demo version of 'Bengali In Platforms'.

Jukebox Jury

Speaking of which did that demo ever surface on the forums?

 

[Hellie]

I don't like what ifs....they are pointless.

I mean what if...my grandma had balls?

 

[Jones]

Probably shit because from what I've read Johnny had stopped writing and was only interested in partying towards the end of the Smiths.

 

[Worm]

Probably shit because from what I've read Johnny had stopped writing and was only interested in partying towards the end of the Smiths.

Oh come on. According to everyone the band was under intense pressure from within and without. I know Johnny, Mike and Andy liked a good party more than Morrissey, and they deserve some disapprobation for their excesses, but let's not paint a portrait of Johnny swinging from chandeliers and snorting blow off of whores' asses. Johnny said he was exhausted and couldn't write-- surely that situation would have righted itself after a vacation.

 

[Corrissey]

I don't like what ifs....they are pointless.

I mean what if...my grandma had balls?

HAHAHAHA!!

Strangeways was the perfect way to ‘go out’/transition.

Besides, Worm would have to change his shirt.

 

[Worm]

Just assuming that Morrissey had been fine with Marr taking THAT holiday post-Strangeways, and let him record with other artists for a few months. And just assuming that during this time, the group found a good manager which they all liked who took away much of the workload from Marr. Let's imagine that The Smiths stayed together, released "Stop Me" in early '88 in the UK (after the Hungerford thing had passed) and that after a wonderful TOTP appearance the song went straight in at #1.

Now it's the spring of Hatey-Hate. The group are back in the studio recording their fifth studio album, which Morrissey has entitled "Education in Reverse". What became (in real life) the backdrop for Moz's 1991 tour (you know, the picture of Harvey Keitel) has been used as the artwork.

What tracks would be on it and what would they sound like? I believe that Morrissey wrote a few Viva Hate era tracks during the dying embers of The Smiths days, so presumably they'd appear on the album.

I also imagine that Marr would begin using more electronic music, as he did on the, er...Electronic records. I wonder what this would have been like alongside Morrissey's vocals? And what of Rourke and Joyce? Would they have still been in the group do we think?

It would have sounded a lot like "Strangeways, Here We Come", only more daring, musically. More chances with the production, more growth in technical areas, better vocals from Morrissey (I think "Viva Hate" has better vocals than anything The Smiths recorded). Johnny wasn't going to go electronic overnight; nothing radical would've been done, just more experimentation like "Death Of A Disco Dancer" and maybe more piano or other classical instruments, as was the case on "Viva Hate" with the strings. Commercially they'd have done well in the UK, of course, but also in the US, where they were poised to break big; right around 1988 a lot of English "new wave" (to use a convenient but inaccurate tag) bands reached new levels of popularity, and The Smiths would have benefited from that. 1988 and 1989 would have seen big tours, some videos, some scorching singles, and maybe a live album along the lines of "Rank".

Out of all this there would have come a couple of classic songs. However, there would've been some filler, too, and with The Smiths any songs that qualified as filler would've been a tragedy. It's not that the band would've gone into the tank. They would have sounded okay. But "sounding okay" wasn't the reason for forming The Smiths in the first place. I know it is fashionable to ignore what Johnny Marr has said about the band's breakup, now as much as then, but Johnny was telling the truth-- not the whole truth, but a significant part of the truth-- when he said in 1988 that he wanted to leave when The Smiths had peaked, "when they made the best album they were gonna make". Actually, in my opinion The Smiths hit their peak in 1985, after finishing "The Queen Is Dead", and never got back. The clock was already ticking down months before that album was even released.

"Strangeways" is a peak in the sense that there was nowhere left to go but down the other side of the mountain. The band split at the right time. Twenty years on we now know a lot more about the personalities of the group members, and it's becoming clearer and clearer that it's a miracle they lasted as long as they did. You asked a very interesting question but I think we should take the perspective that we're lucky to have the four albums we do, and not lament the missing fifth. "Viva Hate" is a classic, however vulnerable and uncertain it sounds in places, and launched a solo career that in many ways now overshadows The Smiths.

 

[Worm]

Besides, Worm would have to change his shirt.

It hasn't left my body since 1987 nor will it. Mmmmmmmetaphysically speaking.

 

[dothewatusi]

Twenty years on we now know a lot more about the personalities of the group members, and it's becoming clearer and clearer that it's a miracle they lasted as long as they did. You asked a very interesting question but I think we should take the perspective that we're lucky to have the four albums we do, and not lament the missing fifth.

As much as I've lamented the break up of The Smiths and all the what ifs, including reforming, I've come to the same conclusion that we're lucky to have the four albums we do. It makes it easier to stop pining for the past and appreciate both Morrissey's and Johnny's post Smiths music.

 

[Nikita]

How many good tunes Marr composed since the end of the band ?

 

[Worm]

How many good tunes Marr composed since the end of the band ?

It's true that Morrissey's good post-Smiths tunes outnumber Marr's by a factor of about 5 or 6 to 1. It is also true that Johnny made different choices and wanted different things from his career than Morrissey did; what Johnny has done is harder to see and appreciate (e.g. Johnny's influence is strongly felt in The The, but are they really his songs?). Johnny was content to blend into the background, while Morrissey didn't have that luxury. You can't really compare them.

 

[dothewatusi]

How many good tunes Marr composed since the end of the band ?

It's harder to follow a guitar player's career than a lead singer's. You have to dig a little deeper. But if you love Johnny's guitar playing, the rewards are great. Try listening to Electronic, TheThe (especially live), Crowded House (Even A Child), Billy Bragg (Greetings To The New Brunette), Kristy MacColl (Walking Down Madison), The Pretenders (Windows of the World), Talking Heads (Nothing But Flowers) and the last Modest Mouse album. Johnny had a hand in writing most of that music and his guitar work is brilliant. It was harder for me to get into The Healer's music, but, there are some great blusey, rocking tunes there. I say why not have it all!

 

[Dave]

I don't like what ifs....they are pointless.

I mean what if...my grandma had balls?

She'd be your grandpa.

 

[Buzzetta]

But the question that was never answered is whether the alternate version of Bengali exists in some form?

 

[Jukebox Jury]

But the question that was never answered is whether the alternate version of Bengali exists in some form?

I'm not at home at the moment so don't have 'Songs That Saved Your Life' handy, but I'd say it was not actually recorded, but just rehearsed.
My reason for that is the song was not listed in the book, but just discussed in detail around the breaking up of the band. Other demos that were recorded are listed in the book as Mike has copies of them, so would imagine he would also have a copy of this if indeed it had been recorded. But if someone can check the book and confirm that, it would be helpful

Jukebox Jury