where joy resides:love vs prozac; the ennobling of suffering as a way to truth

[constantin constantius]

what do the great philosphers and poets mean by truth and beauty? is it not being in harmony and unity with the world?! and where do human beings come closest to finding this harmony and unity? is it not in love?! love is where all the capacitys of man and women - their phycical, spiritual and intellectual powers - are united and found whole. it is the closest we can come to heaven on earth; it is what we mean by happiness. read all the writers from shakespere, dickens, tolstoy...where do they find there happy endings? is it not love?! love has even the power to transform death. listen to wagner's tristan and isolde or gotterdammerung: the death of the lovers is redeemed by love for all eternity.

where has all the great works of art come from? was it not love?! their strivings and sufferings for truth and beauty - be it found in a single woman or the whole world - was ennobled, dignified and given meaning by love. just imagine if all the great geniuses through history decided to take prozac as a way to happiness - half the worlds greatest work of art would not exsist. would van gogh have become the great painter he was to become without his suffering. i doubt it.

of course, at the root of some froms of love is sex, but in humans, sex is subliminated and transformed and takes on ethical - and if the person is spiritually-minded - religious qualitys; it also involves memory, without which their can be no faithfull interest.

what i am saying is truth, beauty, harmony and unity are all about one thing - love. all human beings strive for, and because of love, whether they be great or small; whether they embark on world-historical causes or simply finding a soul-mate, it is all out of love. but it involves moments of despair, anguish, hoplessness...yet it is still more worthy than going down the route of designer drugs, which dimminishes and demeans life because it reduces everything to chemical-processes of the mind and body, but life is infinitly richer and more proufound than this which is why in the long run they don't work. in the end you only deceive and degrade youself.

so if someone want's to find truth and beauty in a bottle of pills, then let them. i am a romantic, and i would rather have "keats and yeats on my side" than any pill-loving doctor.

 

[Mysterio]

TAKE SOME ROOFIES AND GET RAPED YA" BLABBERING PEICE OF @#!!!E

what do the great philosphers and poets mean by truth and
> beauty? is it not being in harmony and unity with the world?!
> and where do human beings come closest to finding this harmony
> and unity? is it not in love?! love is where all the capacitys
> of man and women - their phycical, spiritual and intellectual
> powers - are united and found whole. it is the closest we can
> come to heaven on earth; it is what we mean by happiness. read
> all the writers from shakespere, dickens, tolstoy...where do
> they find there happy endings? is it not love?! love has even
> the power to transform death. listen to wagner's tristan and
> isolde or gotterdammerung: the death of the lovers is redeemed
> by love for all eternity.

> where has all the great works of art come from? was it not
> love?! their strivings and sufferings for truth and beauty - be
> it found in a single woman or the whole world - was ennobled,
> dignified and given meaning by love. just imagine if all the
> great geniuses through history decided to take prozac as a way
> to happiness - half the worlds greatest work of art would not
> exsist. would van gogh have become the great painter he was to
> become without his suffering. i doubt it.

> of course, at the root of some froms of love is sex, but in
> humans, sex is subliminated and transformed and takes on ethical
> - and if the person is spiritually-minded - religious qualitys;
> it also involves memory, without which their can be no faithfull
> interest.

> what i am saying is truth, beauty, harmony and unity are all
> about one thing - love. all human beings strive for, and because
> of love, whether they be great or small; whether they embark on
> world-historical causes or simply finding a soul-mate, it is all
> out of love. but it involves moments of despair, anguish,
> hoplessness...yet it is still more worthy than going down the
> route of designer drugs, which dimminishes and demeans life
> because it reduces everything to chemical-processes of the mind
> and body, but life is infinitly richer and more proufound than
> this which is why in the long run they don't work. in the end
> you only deceive and degrade youself.

> so if someone want's to find truth and beauty in a bottle of
> pills, then let them. i am a romantic, and i would rather have
> "keats and yeats on my side" than any pill-loving
> doctor.

 

[Jim]

Finding happiness through medication is a lie. But finding TRUE love without being a whole person on your own is a lie too.

 

[mozkitten]

it reduces everything to chemical-processes of the mind
> and body,
We really aren't much more than this are we?

> so if someone want's to find truth and beauty in a bottle of
> pills, then let them. i am a romantic, and i would rather have
> "keats and yeats on my side" than any pill-loving
> doctor.

Well thats fine if you are looking for truth/beauty etc, but if you are looking for a way to get up in the morning then I say bring on the pills and plenty of them.

You make some good points but many people do need to take psychiatric medication to improve their daily lives and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hussein Ben Sobar]

Where Punchy resides - there are voices in his head!

> TAKE SOME ROOFIES AND GET RAPED YA" BLABBERING PEICE OF
> @#!!! E

Get professional help before you hurt yourself!

 

[Mysterio]

Re: Where Punchy resides - there are voices in his head!

> Get professional help before you hurt yourself!
translation: Please spunk on my chin for the ever loving name christ!

 

[Hussein Ben Sobar]

Re: Where Punchy resides - there are voices in his head!

> translation: Please spunk on my chin for the ever loving name !
I feel sorry for you! You are REALLY making an ass of youself!

 

[Auntie T.]

Wow!

> Finding happiness through medication is a lie. But finding TRUE
> love without being a whole person on your own is a lie too.

I'm not sure you'll last long here... but I'm going to read EVERY post you write. I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Jim]

Re: Wow!

> I'm not sure you'll last long here... but I'm going to read
> EVERY post you write. I couldn't agree with you more!

thanks. I've lasted quite a while here so far, surprisingly enough.

 

[Suffer]

True that the purest form of love derives from a pure wholeness of self, but what of the people who cannot find this through their own kind of perseverance? The ones not quite sure of themselves, or those who are not "Whole". If one "Feels" confident or sure, they have a hell of a lot better chance of finding their "True" love. Be it drugs or self help classes, it does not affect the outcome. More than likely, the pure person is going to excel in worldy ventures. Personal struggles tend to find comfort in the pre-occupation of something having nothing to do with themselves. If it is too severe a case, chances are they'd die young. If it is a problem but not as critical, they'd be successful and die alone. To do any of these, to me, is not romantic. It's tragic.

 

[Prince T.V.A]

> what do the great philosphers and poets mean by truth and
> beauty? is it not being in harmony and unity with the world?!
> and where do human beings come closest to finding this harmony
> and unity? is it not in love?! love is where all the capacitys
> of man and women - their phycical, spiritual and intellectual
> powers - are united and found whole. it is the closest we can
> come to heaven on earth; it is what we mean by happiness. read
> all the writers from shakespere, dickens, tolstoy...where do
> they find there happy endings? is it not love?! love has even
> the power to transform death. listen to wagner's tristan and
> isolde or gotterdammerung: the death of the lovers is redeemed
> by love for all eternity.

> where has all the great works of art come from? was it not
> love?! their strivings and sufferings for truth and beauty - be
> it found in a single woman or the whole world - was ennobled,
> dignified and given meaning by love. just imagine if all the
> great geniuses through history decided to take prozac as a way
> to happiness - half the worlds greatest work of art would not
> exsist. would van gogh have become the great painter he was to
> become without his suffering. i doubt it.

> of course, at the root of some froms of love is sex, but in
> humans, sex is subliminated and transformed and takes on ethical
> - and if the person is spiritually-minded - religious qualitys;
> it also involves memory, without which their can be no faithfull
> interest.

> what i am saying is truth, beauty, harmony and unity are all
> about one thing - love. all human beings strive for, and because
> of love, whether they be great or small; whether they embark on
> world-historical causes or simply finding a soul-mate, it is all
> out of love. but it involves moments of despair, anguish,
> hoplessness...yet it is still more worthy than going down the
> route of designer drugs, which dimminishes and demeans life
> because it reduces everything to chemical-processes of the mind
> and body, but life is infinitly richer and more proufound than
> this which is why in the long run they don't work. in the end
> you only deceive and degrade youself.

> so if someone want's to find truth and beauty in a bottle of
> pills, then let them. i am a romantic, and i would rather have
> "keats and yeats on my side" than any pill-loving
> doctor.

That was quite wonderfull. I agree.

 

[punchdrunkGB]

Re: Where Punchy resides - there are voices in his head!

your going to die soon

translation: Please spunk on my chin for the ever loving name
> christ!

 

[punchdrunkGB]

Re: Where Punchy resides - there are voices in his head!

yeah go set your rabbis hair on fire

> Get professional help before you hurt yourself!

 

[constantin constantius]

> Finding happiness through medication is a lie. But finding TRUE
> love without being a whole person on your own is a lie too.

your post is a little short, but if i am interpreting you correctly, i think you are right. you have to be sure of who you are as an individual - whole in your own identity and values - before you can ever hope of choosing correctly.

 

[constantin constantius]

i'll give you three types of love. erotic love, which has the specification of being sensate-psyhical-spiritual; friendship, which has the specification of being psyhical-spiritual, and lastly, christian, which is pure spirit. you say people who are not perfect or whole will struggle to achieve their goals in life. i'll give you an extremme example of what i think you mean. take a serverly ugly person, if they try to find fuffillment in erotic love would in all likelyhood fail because they can't match up to the sensate specifiction in erotic love. what you have left is simply frienship. if you were to take away the psyhical-spiritual from erotic love then all you have is lust. so if this ugly person fails in erotic love they must move to friendship and family love. now, what if a person was unfortunate enough to be serverly ugly but who's life was also crippled by shyness. well,obviously, they would find life extremmely difficult in erotic love, but even if they moved to friendship - which requires an outgoing personality and good communication skill - their introverted nature would find it difficult to live up to the psyhical specifacation in friendship. so this person would have to step into christian love. nobody is excluded from christian love because it is purely spiritual.

we all have ideal images of ourselfs and the ideal beloved, but life is tragic and brutal and most of us will never fuffill our ideals. but is the answer to this despair and self-pity, and then reach for a bottle of pills. i don't think so. and i've seen many people who cannot find love become bitter and enviuos of other people until all they can feel is contempt for the world.

if one cannot find erotic love then surely a loving frienship is better than despair and pills; and if one cannot even find friendship, isn't to love thy neighbour and self-giving in love better than eny and hate.

 

[Jim]

Exactly. If you're not a whole person on your own you'll end up choosing someone who you think 'completes' you. These situations are almost always co-dependent and destructive. The reason I brought this up is just because looking to a relationship to 'save' you from misery mostly doesn't work. Although, a good shag doesn't hurt.

I prefer succinct posts.

 

[Jim]

I don't know any Christians who are loving. I understand what you're getting at, i.e., a spiritual love for the essence of things. I don't think Christianity is the way to this love (if it were, Christians wouldn't be the violent and evil people they are), but I do acknowledge the existence of a 'higher love' if you will, which is spiritual in nature.

Commence evangelizing.

 

[[email protected]]

What good is all that romantic, enriching suffering if it kills you? I'm so sick of this luddite argument tossed around about people using every means at their disposal to function happily as humans.

Do you understand, that without meds a lot of people wouldn't even be able to find the motivation to CREATE - theyd just sit around being miserable and no one would know.

The inspiration caused by suffering means jack @#!!! without the ability to motivate and create.

Be gone, hippy. Or take a physiology class.




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