Andrew Collins and Morrissey

Welcome to the madhouse. I do admire your guts in entering, and there are plenty of people around here whose presence offends me far more than yours, so feel free to post away.
I don't want to get in to the question of the whole NME'92 vs Moz thing. Sufficent to say that my position could best be summarised by the Mighty Worm's point-by-point post above.
But the question of his boycott has always intrigued me, and gives a little further insight into Morrissey. I believe that Moz's shunning of the NME for 12 years reflects his faith in NME as a 'thing', an entity above and beyond the actual individual hacks who make it up, so to speak. That faith was betrayed on 22 August 1992! The faith was forged in the white hot pop of the 60s and 70s that kid Moz worshipped. In them days NME was a main conduit through which Morrissey could facilitate his obsession with Bowie, NYD, Sparks, et al. You can get a sense of that passion in the letters he sent to NME towers in the mid-to-late 70s, and in the fact that for many years he harboured a desire to become a music journalist. Even 10 years into his pop 'career', at that time, and having seen the ways of the Industry and the Media from the inside, this faith was still intact.
So the fact that Morrissey boycotted the NME as an organ yet continued to have good personal dealings with the men who were responsible for 'Flying the flag or flirting with disaster' doesn't smack of hypocrisy or sneakiness; to me it's just one further reflection of Morrissey as a fully grown man borne of a poor, fat Stretford child's obsessive love of pop culture. He is not normal you know. :thumb:

You're absolutely right. Morrissey's boycotting of the NME was not about sending a message to its editors and journalists. I think the publication itself had become sullied in his eyes and he couldn't bear to be associated with it anymore.

Morrissey has always lacked the ability to coldly intellectualise. He doesn't do clinical. Everything is fuelled and driven by how he feels. This often makes it appear as if he is thoughtlessly blundering into the unknown when it comes to political issues. And, perhaps, there is a certain lack of analysis, but there is no lack of feeling, no lack of empathy or compassion.
 
but I still wish he'd addressed the issues we covered in that August '92 cover story. As I have said elsewhere, it would have changed the nature of the story. Without his input, it came across - necessarily - as an editorial. With his input, it would have been a story, with two sides.

But surely you see that that would be like the tail wagging the dog? Why should Morrissey dance to your tune? And if he had capitulated to your demands in this instance it would set a precedent - where would it then stop?
 
Andrew, I sent in a letter to NME in June 1992 about some unkind comments you made about Kingmaker. Every week until now I've been scanning the letters page for my letter. You're not going to print it - I'm right, aren't I?

Tony

I made only kind comments about Kingmaker. I fear you have the wrong man.
 
But surely you see that that would be like the tail wagging the dog? Why should Morrissey dance to your tune? And if he had capitulated to your demands in this instance it would set a precedent - where would it then stop?

It wasn't our "tune", and we made no "demands." We invited him to come to the table and speak to us, but - unlike on previous occasions - he declined. No "capitulation" required. Sorry if my account of events seems mundane. Your words make it all sound so much more dramatic!
 
Your words make it all sound so much more dramatic!

Why thank you! I've just written a Doctor Who audio play for Big Finish (of which you are no stranger yourself) so that gives me confidence!!! ;)
 
Without his input, it came across - necessarily - as an editorial. With his input, it would have been a story, with two sides.

This is the point. You wanted a story. That's fine. In order for there to be a story, however, you needed Morrissey's input. Morrissey didn't comply. Therefore, there was no story. What happened next was very poor editorial judgement: to run with half a story and dress it up as editorial.

What we got was pages of opinion and conjecture, the cumulative effect of which was pretty bloody awful. To compound matters, Morrissey's refusal to participate was then used as a stick to adminster further beatings.

It reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Homer is accused of sexual harrassment. When asked what he has to say for himself, the VT is clearly paused and the interviewer sourly intones, "Your silence speaks volumes."

In terms of 'moving on', I'm pretty sure everyone has. This is just one of those bad pennies that keeps turning up.

For what it's worth, I don't have any problem with the initial intention (to interview Morrissey regarding song lyrics and imagery you found worrying). I'm sure it would have been a great interview.

Thanks for dropping by. Much appreciated.
 
The World is full of Crashing Bores and you are one.
have you seen the Madstock on youtube, well you really lied about that!!!!!!
I guess you didn't predict people who wheren't at the gig being able to see the FACTS, you wanted to mislead them and taint Morrissey for the rest of his career.( I bet you got a real kick out of the power you had over him)

now get off this forum as you're a Journalist, a know yes man, a liar and a deluded bore.
This forum is for Morrissey fans and you are not one.

Erm, don't order him off on behalf of everyone, some people think it's quite decent of him to come on and want to see what he has to say.
 
I do find the idea that because Morrissey wasn't going to go along with the NME's tabloidesque tactics, then it was his fault the report was so negative, a bit hard to take. What's wrong with printing a balanced article and having some respect for the truth? Impartiality seems to go out the window if your prey doesn't do what you want. Not much different to the News of the World.

I know what my reaction to "We're going to write a biased negative expose about you being a racist in our next issue, care to comment?" would be, and it wouldn't be to turn up politely in the NME office and "explain myself".
 
Thanks for being so calm and reasoned in your response.

When I first saw the Morrissey cover story in 1992, I had driven about thirty miles to a tiny record shop and paid double the cover price to obtain my copy. It wasn't easy to find them in California. This was a ritual I went through two or three times a month because I was such an avid reader of the NME. I'm very appreciative of the paper and your contributions to it, as well as to Q. I just think you all got the Madstock story very, very wrong.

Because it demonstrates a level of magnanimity that runs counter to the grudge borne by some of his fans, even 17 years later.

I don't bear a "grudge" against the NME. Nor would I bear a "grudge" on Morrissey's behalf over any issue.

What you may not understand is that the 1992 NME story made it that much harder to be a Morrissey fan out in the world, forced to explain the skinheads on your T-shirt to people who were listening to Nirvana and Public Enemy. I'm not claiming I was "victimized" by the story-- far from it-- but Morrissey and The Smiths were moving against the tide of pop culture as far back as 1986, when Frank Owen attacked Morrissey for his comments about the BBC's "conspiracy" to promote black artists. Times had changed. Tastes had changed. Politics had changed. For this reason I was angry at Morrissey, first and foremost, for his blockheaded dalliance with nationalist imagery and his needlessly ambiguous lyrics.

My anger at the NME-- again, entirely my own-- was that the paper clumsily presented a very complex issue that was only bound to send one message, and only one message, about Morrissey. Not that he was a racist, though I'm sure a few believed that. No, it was that Morrissey was way out of step with the times, politically and artistically. The editorial banished Morrissey to history's dustbin. He was a relic from another era. None of the music critics presented him as a racist, but from that point on none presented him as an artist worthy of serious consideration, either. His records were to be consumed with mild amusement and a dose of heady nostalgia for the glory days of The Smiths.

We had moved on, but so, it seems, had he.

Did he? Because publicly he seems to loathe journalists as much as ever. You may be right that he's moved on from the 1992 incident. I don't know. His opinion of the media remains caustic, however, at least publicly. Is it not possible that in his mind he distinguished the older generation of writers from the younger, who he perceived as hostile to him, and chose to remain friendly with those he saw as peers, e.g. those of you who moved to Q?

I still wish he'd addressed the issues we covered in that August '92 cover story. As I have said elsewhere, it would have changed the nature of the story. Without his input, it came across - necessarily - as an editorial. With his input, it would have been a story, with two sides.

The story was two sided! The "Is Morrissey racist?" story has always been two-sided. Morrissey's side of the story is in his art, precisely where it belongs. It's just that his side needs interpreting sometimes because he is (on virtually all counts, not just this) an enigma. The job of the music critic is to discuss this and, where possible, offer interpretations or explanations. In other words, exactly what you did for Herring.

Like Herring, Morrissey's performance (for it is always a performance, of course) works on multiple levels, often throwing a hairy contradiction into our laps that doesn't yield up an easy explanation. For example, as you say of Herring, his stage character acts like a racist though personally he is the exact opposite. In a paper like the NME, the critic has the duty and the pleasure of explaining what those different levels of meaning are, and how they fit together in an artist's work or performances.

Morrissey wasn't just anyone up there waving the Union Jack. He was Morrissey. The act demanded a totally different kind of interpretative process. Granted, the question of racism ought to have come up. (I also concede that, being American, I probably didn't understand the full meaning of some of the imagery and what it meant in England at the time.) But just as passionately should you or Dele have argued, in print, that an artist as complicated as Morrissey must never be "read" naively. This was an artist who put a photo of a naked man on his band's first single and spent the next quarter-century denying he was gay-- for a time, even denying that he had sex. Again and again, his most subtle statements proved either false or much simpler than we thought, and his most outrageous statements proved much more nuanced than first supposed. Waving the Union Jack was pure theater, just like so many of his other gestures.

The irony is, the NME called out Morrissey on the grounds that he was too important and too intelligent a figure to be flirting with dangerous imagery. Yet it was precisely because he was important and intelligent that he deserved a much more sophisticated response. You chose to assume the worst when you might have assumed the best.

Did it not occur to you-- as it did with Herring-- that his use of the flag was an act of reclamation, that Morrissey was trying to wrestle the idea of Englishness away from the skinheads? And that his performance at Madstock wasn't meant as courtship but as a direct confrontation with them? I doubt it was. But as with many things about Morrissey, I am not sure, and that's really the point: there are some questions we'll never answer about Morrissey, and the NME owed him enough respect to present the matter that way.
 
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When I first saw the Morrissey cover story in 1992, I had driven about thirty miles to a tiny record shop and paid double the cover price to obtain my copy. It wasn't easy to find them in California. This was a ritual I went through two or three times a month because I was such an avid reader of the NME. I'm very appreciative of the paper and your contributions to it, as well as to Q. I just think you all got the Madstock story very, very wrong.



I don't bear a "grudge" against the NME. Nor would I bear a "grudge" on Morrissey's behalf over any issue.

What you may not understand is that the 1992 NME story made it that much harder to be a Morrissey fan out in the world, forced to explain the skinheads on your T-shirt to people who were listening to Nirvana and Public Enemy. I'm not claiming I was "victimized" by the story-- far from it-- but Morrissey and The Smiths were moving against the tide of pop culture as far back as 1986, when Frank Owen attacked Morrissey for his comments about the BBC's "conspiracy" to promote black artists. Times had changed. Tastes had changed. Politics had changed. For this reason I was angry at Morrissey, first and foremost, for his blockheaded dalliance with nationalist imagery and his needlessly ambiguous lyrics.

My anger at the NME-- again, entirely my own-- was that the paper clumsily presented a very complex issue that was only bound to send one message, and only one message, about Morrissey. Not that he was a racist, though I'm sure a few believed that. No, it was that Morrissey was way out of step with the times, politically and artistically. The editorial banished Morrissey to history's dustbin. He was a relic from another era. None of the music critics presented him as a racist, but from that point on none presented him as an artist worthy of serious consideration, either. His records were to be consumed with mild amusement and a dose of heady nostalgia for the glory days of The Smiths.



Did he? Because publicly he seems to loathe journalists as much as ever. You may be right that he's moved on from the 1992 incident. I don't know. His opinion of the media remains caustic, however, at least publicly. Is it not possible that in his mind he distinguished the older generation of writers from the younger, who he perceived as hostile to him, and chose to remain friendly with those he saw as peers, e.g. those of you who moved to Q?



The story was two sided! The "Is Morrissey racist?" story has always been two-sided. Morrissey's side of the story is in his art, precisely where it belongs. It's just that his side needs interpreting sometimes because he is (on virtually all counts, not just this) an enigma. The job of the music critic is to discuss this and, where possible, offer interpretations or explanations. In other words, exactly what you did for Herring.

Like Herring, Morrissey's performance (for it is always a performance, of course) works on multiple levels, often throwing a hairy contradiction into our laps that doesn't yield up an easy explanation. For example, as you say of Herring, his stage character acts like a racist though personally he is the exact opposite. In a paper like the NME, the critic has the duty and the pleasure of explaining what those different levels of meaning are, and how they fit together in an artist's work or performances.

Morrissey wasn't just anyone up there waving the Union Jack. He was Morrissey. The act demanded a totally different kind of interpretative process. Granted, the question of racism ought to have come up. (I also concede that, being American, I probably didn't understand the full meaning of some of the imagery and what it meant in England at the time.) But just as passionately should you or Dele have argued, in print, that an artist as complicated as Morrissey must never be "read" naively. This was an artist who put a photo of a naked man on his band's first single and spent the next quarter-century denying he was gay-- for a time, even denying that he had sex. Again and again, his most subtle statements proved either false or much simpler than we thought, and his most outrageous statements proved much more nuanced than first supposed. Waving the Union Jack was pure theater, just like so many of his other gestures.

The irony is, the NME called out Morrissey on the grounds that he was too important and too intelligent a figure to be flirting with dangerous imagery. Yet it was precisely because he was important and intelligent that he deserved a much more sophisticated response. You chose to assume the worst when you might have assumed the best.

Did it not occur to you-- as it did with Herring-- that his use of the flag was an act of reclamation, that Morrissey was trying to wrestle the idea of Englishness away from the skinheads? And that his performance at Madstock wasn't meant as courtship but as a direct confrontation with them? I doubt it was. But as with many things about Morrissey, I am not sure, and that's really the point: there are some questions we'll never answer about Morrissey, and the NME owed him enough respect to present the matter that way.

well said worm
 
Did it not occur to you-- as it did with Herring-- that his use of the flag was an act of reclamation, that Morrissey was trying to wrestle the idea of Englishness away from the skinheads? And that his performance at Madstock wasn't meant as courtship but as a direct confrontation with them? I doubt it was. But as with many things about Morrissey, I am not sure, and that's really the point: there are some questions we'll never answer about Morrissey, and the NME owed him enough respect to present the matter that way.

You make a lot of great points. But I also doubt his flying the flag was an act of reclamation. Morrissey often acts out of fascination, and he plays with the imagery of those things that fascinate him. He admitted he was fascinated by the phenomena of skinhead culture and subsequently played with its imagery and 'accessories'. Unfortunately, many people saw this as Morrissey positioning himself as an advocate for said culture and, more bizarrely, its worst excesses.

Many people will recoil from the notion that Morrissey is different and should, therefore, be approached and treated differently. But he is different. And we should approach him differently.

Thanks for a really interesting post.
 
The reason that this is getting pretty circular is that there is no truth. There are only narratives.

AC has his narrative.
Morrissey has his narrative.
If I were there for the show and the writing of the article, I could not deliver truth to anyone, only a third version of the story.

We all know that news is sensationalized. I take it all with a grain of salt. I have seen the Madstock video (You can probably find it on http://smithtorrents.co.uk) and it was not a good day for Morrissey but it was not as bad as the news made it sound.

Morrissey was already dealing with racism as a theme of Your Arsenal (Disco and Let You Know specifically.) The Skinheads were on the backdrop, t-shirts and the tour program (not sure if the latter 2 were available yet). The previous year the Our Frank video had skinheads in it (though this video was very hard to see back in 1991/1992).

I do not see racism on the songs but that's just my opinion. I can see how other people could perceive him to be racist.

NME's job is to sell papers. I don't know how sales were, but my guess is they were pretty good.

Morrissey has no trouble slagging off anyone he doesn't like and people here for the most part don't mind but if he takes any negative publicity it's as if someone is raping babies.

Morrissey's always tried to play the victim. It's like the Mike Joyce case. It's always about what everyone else did. Never about anything he did.
 
Its 1993 "Yanks Go Home" edition of select magazine, featuring The Auteurs, Denim, Saint Etienne, Pulp and Suede's Brett Anderson on the cover in front of a Union Jack.

so why was it ok to use of the Union Jack to promote Britpop at Select and the say 'Yanks Go Home'
 
oh and I believe Morrissey was hit by a carton of fruit juice at the Madness reunion show.
'Drink of the Year' in the 'Select' poll was 'The orange juice which hit Morrissey'.
was this your idea?
 
When I first saw the Morrissey cover story in 1992, I had driven about thirty miles to a tiny record shop and paid double the cover price to obtain my copy. It wasn't easy to find them in California. This was a ritual I went through two or three times a month because I was such an avid reader of the NME. I'm very appreciative of the paper and your contributions to it, as well as to Q. I just think you all got the Madstock story very, very wrong.



I don't bear a "grudge" against the NME. Nor would I bear a "grudge" on Morrissey's behalf over any issue.

What you may not understand is that the 1992 NME story made it that much harder to be a Morrissey fan out in the world, forced to explain the skinheads on your T-shirt to people who were listening to Nirvana and Public Enemy. I'm not claiming I was "victimized" by the story-- far from it-- but Morrissey and The Smiths were moving against the tide of pop culture as far back as 1986, when Frank Owen attacked Morrissey for his comments about the BBC's "conspiracy" to promote black artists. Times had changed. Tastes had changed. Politics had changed. For this reason I was angry at Morrissey, first and foremost, for his blockheaded dalliance with nationalist imagery and his needlessly ambiguous lyrics.

My anger at the NME-- again, entirely my own-- was that the paper clumsily presented a very complex issue that was only bound to send one message, and only one message, about Morrissey. Not that he was a racist, though I'm sure a few believed that. No, it was that Morrissey was way out of step with the times, politically and artistically. The editorial banished Morrissey to history's dustbin. He was a relic from another era. None of the music critics presented him as a racist, but from that point on none presented him as an artist worthy of serious consideration, either. His records were to be consumed with mild amusement and a dose of heady nostalgia for the glory days of The Smiths.



Did he? Because publicly he seems to loathe journalists as much as ever. You may be right that he's moved on from the 1992 incident. I don't know. His opinion of the media remains caustic, however, at least publicly. Is it not possible that in his mind he distinguished the older generation of writers from the younger, who he perceived as hostile to him, and chose to remain friendly with those he saw as peers, e.g. those of you who moved to Q?



The story was two sided! The "Is Morrissey racist?" story has always been two-sided. Morrissey's side of the story is in his art, precisely where it belongs. It's just that his side needs interpreting sometimes because he is (on virtually all counts, not just this) an enigma. The job of the music critic is to discuss this and, where possible, offer interpretations or explanations. In other words, exactly what you did for Herring.

Like Herring, Morrissey's performance (for it is always a performance, of course) works on multiple levels, often throwing a hairy contradiction into our laps that doesn't yield up an easy explanation. For example, as you say of Herring, his stage character acts like a racist though personally he is the exact opposite. In a paper like the NME, the critic has the duty and the pleasure of explaining what those different levels of meaning are, and how they fit together in an artist's work or performances.

Morrissey wasn't just anyone up there waving the Union Jack. He was Morrissey. The act demanded a totally different kind of interpretative process. Granted, the question of racism ought to have come up. (I also concede that, being American, I probably didn't understand the full meaning of some of the imagery and what it meant in England at the time.) But just as passionately should you or Dele have argued, in print, that an artist as complicated as Morrissey must never be "read" naively. This was an artist who put a photo of a naked man on his band's first single and spent the next quarter-century denying he was gay-- for a time, even denying that he had sex. Again and again, his most subtle statements proved either false or much simpler than we thought, and his most outrageous statements proved much more nuanced than first supposed. Waving the Union Jack was pure theater, just like so many of his other gestures.

The irony is, the NME called out Morrissey on the grounds that he was too important and too intelligent a figure to be flirting with dangerous imagery. Yet it was precisely because he was important and intelligent that he deserved a much more sophisticated response. You chose to assume the worst when you might have assumed the best.

Did it not occur to you-- as it did with Herring-- that his use of the flag was an act of reclamation, that Morrissey was trying to wrestle the idea of Englishness away from the skinheads? And that his performance at Madstock wasn't meant as courtship but as a direct confrontation with them? I doubt it was. But as with many things about Morrissey, I am not sure, and that's really the point: there are some questions we'll never answer about Morrissey, and the NME owed him enough respect to present the matter that way.

I continue to be impressed by your posts here. Excellent stuff.

Peter
 
The printed word may kill you.



"This is by far and away the ex-Smith's worst single - it's the sound of five men bashing around in the darkness in search of a tune. Moz is history, and we'd all do well to learn it."

Words by Andrew Collins, April 1992 when reviewing-We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful
 
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