i like fishes

[let's explicate every song today!!]

Dear Devotees:

Let's take every single song, from The Smiths, Eponymous, to Morrissey's Malajusted and add insights to their meanings. Include B-Sides if you want.

For example, Tingle starts a thread on Suedehead. We add to that thread.

Nonesover starts a thread on The More You Ignore Me. We add to that thread.

XYZ Person starts a thread on Alma Matters, we add to that thread.

And so it goes.

Logically, it might be wise to begin with the Smiths' first album but I don't think that is a requirement for us to do this.

I realize that this is a Herculean task, but let's see. We may not get to every song, and so what. In addition, the insights don't need to be a treatise. Futhermore, it seems that some, but not all, songs speak for themselves.

Okay, so without any help from Simon Goddard, or Johnny Rogan (even though you are welcome to use any sources you like) here goes something!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: swim with the fishes

Well, if I got 'The More You Ignore Me' then ...

Someone I think 'Let's Go' said it may be about an obsessed fan (ala Eminem).

I have a piece MTV did on him and his fans (us) back in 1994 when
Vauxhall came out.

So is the song really about the music industry again
(cause it's getting a bit old, as someone suggested
Papa Jack is about an aging rock star).

He says in that interview that he's glad he made
it thus far on his own 'steam', without anyone helping him
(really?) and that it was comfortable for the industry to
dismiss and ignore him as an oddity.

Since then I feel they'd continued to ignore him and the
farther he got. (At least with Your Arsenal and Vauxhall
he got some TV exposure).

He also said he doesn't belittle people who listen to
him (which is always nice, why would he say that?).
The fans at a signing he held, had little to contribute with
The likes of 'Morrissey is the one always telling the
truth'.

 

[The Forgotten Man]

the last of the famous international playboys

The Last Of The Famous International Playboys (TLOTFIP) is a song wherein Moz pays homage to those notorious English gangsters, the brothers, Reggy and Ronny Cray. It is a song essentially about Moz's love for the "romance of crime," a theme noted in Sister, I'm a Poet, Shoplifters of the World Unite, Sweet & Tender Hooligan, etc.

From the very outset, it is clear that Moz is not condemning the murderous duo as he sings "dear HERO imprisoned," and later going so far as to say "well I loved you." Mozzer goes on to suggest that, following in their footsteps, he has committed his own crimes, and now finds himself behind bars, because he wanted the Brothers Kray to know his face and like him. Though written years before the OJ Simpson trial, Morrissey insightfully points out that people who kill, especially repeatedly, or in a gruesome way that shocks the conscience, are given celebrity, or near celebrity status by the media. Now days, this seems to become more apparent with every new high profile murder.

> Dear Devotees:

> Let's take every single song, from The Smiths, Eponymous, to Morrissey's
> Malajusted and add insights to their meanings. Include B-Sides if you
> want.

> For example, Tingle starts a thread on Suedehead. We add to that thread.

> Nonesover starts a thread on The More You Ignore Me. We add to that
> thread.

> XYZ Person starts a thread on Alma Matters, we add to that thread.

> And so it goes.

> Logically, it might be wise to begin with the Smiths' first album but I
> don't think that is a requirement for us to do this.

> I realize that this is a Herculean task, but let's see. We may not get to
> every song, and so what. In addition, the insights don't need to be a
> treatise. Futhermore, it seems that some, but not all, songs speak for
> themselves.

> Okay, so without any help from Simon Goddard, or Johnny Rogan (even though
> you are welcome to use any sources you like) here goes something!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: the last of the famous international playboys

Saw the video for the song recently.

I didn't quite get what the story line was about, with that kid

And Morrissey, Andy and the band standing with a green screen behind them.

It looks like they forgot to blend in the virtual computer animation in the back, otherwise I don't know what they were thinking.

> The Last Of The Famous International Playboys (TLOTFIP) is a song wherein
> Moz pays homage to those notorious English gangsters, the brothers, Reggy
> and Ronny Cray. It is a song essentially about Moz's love for the
> "romance of crime," a theme noted in Sister, I'm a Poet,
> Shoplifters of the World Unite, Sweet & Tender Hooligan, etc.

> From the very outset, it is clear that Moz is not condemning the murderous
> duo as he sings "dear HERO imprisoned," and later going so far
> as to say "well I loved you." Mozzer goes on to suggest that,
> following in their footsteps, he has committed his own crimes, and now
> finds himself behind bars, because he wanted the Brothers Kray to know his
> face and like him. Though written years before the OJ Simpson trial,
> Morrissey insightfully points out that people who kill, especially
> repeatedly, or in a gruesome way that shocks the conscience, are given
> celebrity, or near celebrity status by the media. Now days, this seems to
> become more apparent with every new high profile murder.

 

[nonesoever]

Re: u like fishes

By the way, did you read through 'It May All End Tomorrow' LASID?:
http://www.oz.net/~moz/lyrics/lyricsin.htm

Also through the Arcane Old Wardrobe, which has album reviews and Morrissey quotes about some of his songs:
http://www.arcaneoldwardrobe.com/

If you haven't yet, you may get some new ideas and if you got ones
not yet mentioned, post them here.

> Dear Devotees:

> Let's take every single song, from The Smiths, Eponymous, to Morrissey's
> Malajusted and add insights to their meanings. Include B-Sides if you
> want.

> For example, Tingle starts a thread on Suedehead. We add to that thread.

> Nonesover starts a thread on The More You Ignore Me. We add to that
> thread.

> XYZ Person starts a thread on Alma Matters, we add to that thread.

> And so it goes.

> Logically, it might be wise to begin with the Smiths' first album but I
> don't think that is a requirement for us to do this.

> I realize that this is a Herculean task, but let's see. We may not get to
> every song, and so what. In addition, the insights don't need to be a
> treatise. Futhermore, it seems that some, but not all, songs speak for
> themselves.

> Okay, so without any help from Simon Goddard, or Johnny Rogan (even though
> you are welcome to use any sources you like) here goes something!

 

[The Forgotten Man]

Re: the last of the famous international playboys

Well, the sory line with that kid, was incredibly vague. I believe he was some 16 year old tough who peddles drugs. If one was to freeze frame, and do an analysis of the posters on the wall, it probably....would not help one at all!

Now, getting back the video my friend, it was to be purposefully psychedelic, weird, with the band, and especially Moz elongated like a bobble head toy for lack of a better term. I loved that green screen. It was supposed to look purposefully claustrophobic, that's what they were going for.

Some of this, I read somewhere ages ago, and some is just my own opinion, but I'm pretty sure I am on point here.

Gotta love Streety for using Keyboards in both this song, and in Ouija Board, and Moz for letting said keyboards be shown prominently in the video despite his alleged hate for all things synth...to the point where J. Marr was forced to play keyboard parts back through some contraption (like a mixer board or something) and then have the sounds come out via his guitar, so that keyboards were not being recorded on Smiths' songs (see: Goddard, Simon).

> Saw the video for the song recently.

> I didn't quite get what the story line was about, with that kid

> And Morrissey, Andy and the band standing with a green screen behind them.

> It looks like they forgot to blend in the virtual computer animation in
> the back, otherwise I don't know what they were thinking.

 

[The Forgotten Man]

The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

Okay, back to The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get, video.

The little girl is wearing an "Angelic Upstarts' Greatest Hits" T-Shirt.

Is that Mozzer paying tribute to a fairly obscure old English punk band?

And did you notice how the little girl does that, off with her head move, signifing being beheaded?

So, that little girl represents the Queen, and so both:

1) Marg on the Guilotine

and

2) The Queen is Dead are referenced!!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: the last of the famous international playboys

What does that poster say exactly, my recording is a bit shabby?

Morrissey reminds me of that guy singing 'never gonna give you up ...
never gonna say a lie and desert you' with those trousers (well the 80s
what can you do?).

The camera does seem to come dangerously close to his face at times.

But why green? Surely you can be claustrophobic in blue?

The keyboards look like they were made in the sixties.

But Marr used keyboards on Asleep and Shakespeare's sister didn't he?

> Well, the sory line with that kid, was incredibly vague. I believe he was
> some 16 year old tough who peddles drugs. If one was to freeze frame, and
> do an analysis of the posters on the wall, it probably....would not help
> one at all!

> Now, getting back the video my friend, it was to be purposefully
> psychedelic, weird, with the band, and especially Moz elongated like a
> bobble head toy for lack of a better term. I loved that green screen. It
> was supposed to look purposefully claustrophobic, that's what they were
> going for.

> Some of this, I read somewhere ages ago, and some is just my own opinion,
> but I'm pretty sure I am on point here.

> Gotta love Streety for using Keyboards in both this song, and in Ouija
> Board, and Moz for letting said keyboards be shown prominently in the
> video despite his alleged hate for all things synth...to the point where
> J. Marr was forced to play keyboard parts back through some contraption
> (like a mixer board or something) and then have the sounds come out via
> his guitar, so that keyboards were not being recorded on Smiths' songs
> (see: Goddard, Simon).

 

[nonesoever]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

> Okay, back to The More You Ignore Me, The Closer I Get, video.

> The little girl is wearing an "Angelic Upstarts' Greatest Hits"
> T-Shirt.

> Is that Mozzer paying tribute to a fairly obscure old English punk band?

really that's what on her wee shirt?

Yeah, he loves that band. There's an interview where he mentions them
thrice.

> And did you notice how the little girl does that, off with her head move,
> signifing being beheaded?

She looks like she's gonna cry really.

> So, that little girl represents the Queen, and so both:

> 1) Marg on the Guilotine

> and

> 2) The Queen is Dead are referenced!!

I think she's just there to be cute.
She's the director's daughter I think, so she was there by coincidence.

 

[The Forgotten Man]

Re: the last of the famous international playboys

> What does that poster say exactly, my recording is a bit shabby?

THERE ARE SEVERAL POSTERS ON THAT KID'S WALL AND THE CEILING AS WELL! I WILL LOOK LATER, BUT SOMEONE ENGLISH WOULD BE BETTER FOR THIS THAN ME, AMERICANASf***INGEVER!

> Morrissey reminds me of that guy singing 'never gonna give you up ...
> never gonna say a lie and desert you' with those trousers (well the 80s
> what can you do?).

RICK ASTLEY! LOL! I ACTUALLY HAD ONE OF HIS ALBUMS AS A LAD!!

> The camera does seem to come dangerously close to his face at times.

YEAH, AND YOUR POINT IS WHAT? THE MAN WAS DROP DEAD GORGEOUS.

> But why green? Surely you can be claustrophobic in blue?

YES, BUT GREEN IS SICKER...YOU KNOW MORE...AH...THERE IS A WORD...

> The keyboards look like they were made in the sixties.

WELL, IF MOZZER WAS GONNA ALLOW THEM, THEY HAD TO BE CLASSIC, NOT THE KIND OF ROLAND CYBORG THINGY THAT ALAN WILDER AND MARTIN GORE WOULD BREAK OUT!

> But Marr used keyboards on Asleep and Shakespeare's sister didn't he?

YEAH, BUT HE TOLD MOZZER, IT WAS DISTORTED GUITAR, WHEN HE HANDED MOZZER THE MUSIC.

LOL!!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: Angelic Upstarts

Here's the interview, it was Q magazine in 1994:
http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/interviews/1994/hello.htm

Q: What do you do all day?
Isn't that a very Hello! question? Nothing that would interest you. Sit and
listen to The Angelic Upstarts. Whom I've now mentioned for the third time.
Q: What is this with The Angelic Upstarts? Weren't The Smiths supposed
to be the reaction of beauty and charm after the snarling negativity of
punk?
Yes, they were beauty and charm but if you listen to songs like Sweet And
Tender Hooligan... well, I don't like The Smiths being categorised as folk
music. It wasn't like that. The appearances were extremely, expressively
violent. And I wouldn't have had it any other way. But if you study modern
groups, those who gain press coverage and chart action, most of them
aren't actually as good as The Angelic Upstarts, aren't as exciting as
Sham 69. None of them are as good as Siouxsie And The Banshees at
full pelt. That's not dusty nostalgia, that's fact. Most modern groups as far
as I can see are Creedence
Clearwater Revival. I long for a reactionary, political, almost racist group
made up entirely of Asian musicians.

 

[frank]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

>I beleive the kid in the video is Bozs daughter

really that's what on her wee shirt?

> Yeah, he loves that band. There's an interview where he mentions them
> thrice.

> She looks like she's gonna cry really.

> I think she's just there to be cute.
> She's the director's daughter I think, so she was there by coincidence.

 

[The Forgotten Man]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

She is wearing a crown, silly!!

And she cuts her own head off symbolically!

THE QUEEN IS DEAD!!

 

[nonesoever]

Re: the last of the famous international playboys

NO NEED TO SHOUT!

> THERE ARE SEVERAL POSTERS ON THAT KID'S WALL AND THE CEILING AS WELL! I
> WILL LOOK LATER, BUT SOMEONE ENGLISH WOULD BE BETTER FOR THIS THAN ME,
> AMERICANASf***INGEVER!

I meant the billboard the boy passes under in the street.

> RICK ASTLEY! LOL! I ACTUALLY HAD ONE OF HIS ALBUMS AS A LAD!!

We won't hold that against you.

> YEAH, AND YOUR POINT IS WHAT? THE MAN WAS DROP DEAD GORGEOUS.

No, just commenting on the camera's angle, which made him look
distorted.

> YES, BUT GREEN IS SICKER...YOU KNOW MORE...AH...THERE IS A WORD...

Sickening is the word.

> WELL, IF MOZZER WAS GONNA ALLOW THEM, THEY HAD TO BE CLASSIC, NOT THE KIND
> OF ROLAND CYBORG THINGY THAT ALAN WILDER AND MARTIN GORE WOULD BREAK OUT!

What does he have against keyboards?

> YEAH, BUT HE TOLD MOZZER, IT WAS DISTORTED GUITAR, WHEN HE HANDED MOZZER
> THE MUSIC.

> LOL!!

Well Morrissey obviously knew, he just didn't want to look like he's given up
his principles.

 

[nonesoever]

Re: That Little Girl

I don't know.

Why isn't Boz in the video then?
Alain is in there.

 

[nonesoever]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

you could be right, though
I don't understand what it
has to do with the song.

can you think of something?

> She is wearing a crown, silly!!

> And she cuts her own head off symbolically!

> THE QUEEN IS DEAD!!

 

[The Forgotten Man]

Elvis, Whyte Looked Like Elvis!

Perhaps, because they only needed one leather clad guitarist to throw that Fender into oblivion.

 

[nonesoever]

Re: Whyte Did Not Look Like Elvis!

Such a high budget video LOL!

I remember it was the director's daughter, I may be wrong.
somebody?

> Perhaps, because they only needed one leather clad guitarist to throw that
> Fender into oblivion.

 

[The Forgotten Man]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

Here's what I think. It's like Moz saying, look, I really have made it as a solo artist, I really did it. Viva, Bona, Your Arsenal, Vauxhall, all made their marks on the UK charts, and I would imagine in Europe, and in Japan too, and to a lesser extent in the USA and South America.

Moz is saying, The Queen Finally is Dead, I have shed that Smiths' skin, even if the morose, and about 20 other "M" words, label remains.

I did it. But I am not angry. Hence, the little girl. Poking fun. Having fun.

Saying, it's all good. I'm fairly happy. I don't begrudge the past.

It the dream/goal of "Break Up The Family" realized.

And I can laugh about it now, but at the time (the Smiths disbanded) it was terrible.

This has been IMHO.

Please forget it.

> you could be right, though
> I don't understand what it
> has to do with the song.

> can you think of something?

 

[nonesoever]

Re: The More That Little Girl Ignores Moz, The Closer He Gets!!

You may very well be right, it all perfectly makes sense.

I just don't seek symbolism in everything and sometime take things
as they are.

What about the hanging lights and that shattered bulb?

> Here's what I think. It's like Moz saying, look, I really have made it as
> a solo artist, I really did it. Viva, Bona, Your Arsenal, Vauxhall, all
> made their marks on the UK charts, and I would imagine in Europe, and in
> Japan too, and to a lesser extent in the USA and South America.

> Moz is saying, The Queen Finally is Dead, I have shed that Smiths' skin,
> even if the morose, and about 20 other "M" words, label remains.

> I did it. But I am not angry. Hence, the little girl. Poking fun. Having
> fun.

> Saying, it's all good. I'm fairly happy. I don't begrudge the past.

> It the dream/goal of "Break Up The Family" realized.

> And I can laugh about it now, but at the time (the Smiths disbanded) it
> was terrible.

> This has been IMHO.

> Please forget it.