Johnny Marr singing Morrissey's lyrics and vocal melodies - what do you think?

[Maurice E]

Of course, he's sung the odd Smiths song or two before, but nothing like the scale of the new tour (5 or 6 songs).
Listen to the Healers songs e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VSc3lrc0io&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL6B7035592F9B3BA7 - the lyrics and singing style is about as far removed from Morrissey as it's possible to get (a bit like the Charlatans, perhaps).
So, what do you think of these new versions? It's arguably how the Smiths would have sounded had Morrissey quit and they carried on without him!

 

[Amy]

Marr is no singer and I think everyone acknowledges that (including the man himself), but it really isn't fair to expect him to sing like Morrissey or to mimick Morrissey's vocal style - he's not trying to form a tribute band. He's playing his own songs in his own way, and his version sounds stronger, tighter and more 'true' than the clumsy half-arsed attempts of Morrissey's band. He does the best he can with his limited vocal range, but I'd rather see him singing those songs than giving them to newer collaborators like Ryan Jarman, Neil Finn, Isaac Brock etc. Did you hear the Cribs covering "Panic"? Absolutely painful. People are turning up to these Healers shows solely to hear the Smiths songs, and I think Johnny knows it and gives us faithful renditions.

 

[Maurice E]

Marr is no singer and I think everyone acknowledges that (including the man himself), but it really isn't fair to expect him to sing like Morrissey or to mimick Morrissey's vocal style - he's not trying to form a tribute band. He's playing his own songs in his own way, and his version sounds stronger, tighter and more 'true' than the clumsy half-arsed attempts of Morrissey's band. He does the best he can with his limited vocal range, but I'd rather see him singing those songs than giving them to newer collaborators like Ryan Jarman, Neil Finn, Isaac Brock etc. Did you hear the Cribs covering "Panic"? Absolutely painful. People are turning up to these Healers shows solely to hear the Smiths songs, and I think Johnny knows it and gives us faithful renditions.

Good points, Amy, but almost everything you said against Morrissey's band, and in Marr's defence, could be switched round. You could say that it would be unfair to expect Morrissey's band to play like Marr or mimick his style. They've clearly decided to play 'This Charming Man' in a different style, for example, (although it's not to my liking). Perhaps we could say that they're also doing the best they can.
Similarly, could Marr's attempts at singing Morrissey's lyrics and melody lines not be described as 'clumsy and half arsed'?
It seems that one (highly critical) rule gets applied to Morrissey's live Smiths versions and another (much more forgiving and generous one) gets applied to Marr's.
Also, how odd that Marr should completely ignore everything he did between 1987 and 2010, including everything off his debut album. Why not throw in some Electronic songs? They had some cracking singles, and the singing was always lower in the mix than Morrissey's, so it wouldn't matter so much that they were sung by someone else.
Marr had never played a single Smiths song at any Healers show before last week so I don't think people could really have expected him to even play one or two, let along five or six. I seem to remember you, yourself, saying that you didn't think Marr would play any Smiths songs on this tour as he wanted to assert his own identity for the Healers (or words to that effect). I do agree with your views on the Cribs 'Panic' tho - really quite dire.
I'm glad Marr's finally playing the Smiths songs again, and I'd love to see him do them live (it was pretty depressing hearing him be so generally dismissive towards the Smiths in the earlier post-split years) but I'm just a bit baffled as to why there are different rules applied to his live versions than are applied to Morrissey's.

 

[Amy]

Good points, Amy, but almost everything you said against Morrissey's band, and in Marr's defence, could be switched round. You could say that it would be unfair to expect Morrissey's band to play like Marr or mimick his style. They've clearly decided to play 'This Charming Man' in a different style, for example, (although it's not to my liking). Perhaps we could say that they're also doing the best they can.
Similarly, could Marr's attempts at singing Morrissey's lyrics and melody lines not be described as 'clumsy and half arsed'?
It seems that one (highly critical) rule gets applied to Morrissey's live Smiths versions and another (much more forgiving and generous one) gets applied to Marr's.
Also, how odd that Marr should completely ignore everything he did between 1987 and 2010, including everything off his debut album. Why not throw in some Electronic songs? They had some cracking singles, and the singing was always lower in the mix than Morrissey's, so it wouldn't matter so much that they were sung by someone else.
Marr had never played a single Smiths song at any Healers show before last week so I don't think people could really have expected him to even play one or two, let along five or six. I seem to remember you, yourself, saying that you didn't think Marr would play any Smiths songs on this tour as he wanted to assert his own identity for the Healers (or words to that effect). I do agree with your views on the Cribs 'Panic' tho - really quite dire.
I'm glad Marr's finally playing the Smiths songs again, and I'd love to see him do them live (it was pretty depressing hearing him be so generally dismissive towards the Smiths in the earlier post-split years) but I'm just a bit baffled as to why there are different rules applied to his live versions than are applied to Morrissey's.

I feel like you're confusing skill with style. One guitarist can learn to play the same piece of music as another, and more or less replicate it perfectly with enough practice. Just look on YouTube for some brilliant Smiths covers. It's easier than taking someone who just can't sing and expecting them to emulate the vocal stylings of someone like Morrissey, whose voice is his trademark - you couldn't teach someone else to sing like that. "This Charming Man" is interesting; I think Morrissey deliberately asked his band to omit the intro / play a more raucous version as a silent nod to Johnny, an acknowledgement that he can't be imitated. For the same reason, I'd be stunned if Marr ever put "This Charming Man" on his setlist - he just couldn't sing it. My point is that if Morrissey's band aren't faithful to the Smiths songs, it's due at least in part to their lack of technical skill. If Johnny can't sing like Morrissey, that's because he's not Morrissey.

I was surprised by the lack of Electronic material as well - it's his biggest project outside the Smiths. I would have loved to hear "Slow Emotion Replay" from his The The days. I was genuinely shocked that he played so many Smiths songs this time round, and I can only assume that it's because (a) he realised the first Healers album was an utter disaster and/or (b) he has finally come to terms with the fact that his time for a solo career has long since passed. I suspect nerves played a big part in his song choice as well, and a desire to please the crowd. I remember the first Healers interviews in 2001/2002 and Marr was emphatically focused on 'the present', on not doing any Smiths songs, on looking forward to the future etc. Then the album bombed, he returned to sideman status...I think (when he's not denigrating his legacy trying to impress new collaborators, or throwing petty insults Mozzer's way), his relationship with his legacy has warmed over the years. He's stopped trying to 'outrun' it.

 

[Amy]

I'm glad Marr's finally playing the Smiths songs again, and I'd love to see him do them live (it was pretty depressing hearing him be so generally dismissive towards the Smiths in the earlier post-split years)

As you've probably guessed, I have a lot of time for Johnny, but the one thing that absolutely pisses me off to the limit is his chameleon-like lack of loyalty. He's powerfully influenced by the people around him: in 1989 he's best buddies with Matt Johnson and "Dorrissey" is a sad joke, in 1990 Morrissey is 'the best lyricist of his generation' and by 1991 he & Sumner are flinging mud at Moz once again, in an endless cycle. He has consistently turned to slagging off Morrissey/The Smiths in order to massage the egos of later collaborators (and that's not even considering the 25 years he's spent blaming Morrissey for the split), and it just stinks of hypocrisy and disrespect. When Marr does talk about the Smiths in a positive light (which he is doing moreso these days, I think) - it's as though the singer was never there.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

As you've probably guessed, I have a lot of time for Johnny, but the one thing that absolutely pisses me off to the limit is his chameleon-like lack of loyalty. He's powerfully influenced by the people around him: in 1989 he's best buddies with Matt Johnson and "Dorrissey" is a sad joke, in 1990 Morrissey is 'the best lyricist of his generation' and by 1991 he & Sumner are flinging mud at Moz once again, in an endless cycle. He has consistently turned to slagging off Morrissey/The Smiths in order to massage the egos of later collaborators (and that's not even considering the 25 years he's spent blaming Morrissey for the split), and it just stinks of hypocrisy and disrespect. When Marr does talk about the Smiths in a positive light (which he is doing moreso these days, I think) - it's as though the singer was never there.

Interesting.

 

[ian151]

Ehh. The singing just wasn't up to snuff. I'm all musicians interpreting their work in different ways. But bad vocals are bad vocals.

 

[King Leer]

I chose "good" not because the vocals were technically great (How Soon was sung with emotion, Headmaster was tepid, neither were very tuneful) but because Marr is singing lyrics he loves, having wrote the music which inspired them. That alone is good to see and hear.

The point about voice vs. instrument is an interesting one. I think it's an argument for the statement that the human singing voice is an instrument - perhaps the most unique of all. Some people say Morrissey is "not a musician" and "just sings". I don't know but, brilliant lyrics aside, coming up with hundreds of vocal melodies over the years is no small feat. Take How Soon is Now. Amazing music, the guitar sounds like someone wailing in pain, but then Morrissey comes up with that opening line and vocal melody? It's two geniuses.

Morrissey is still coming up with memorable vocals (I like Art Hounds in particular) for music that is not Marr's, obviously.

 

[egosheep]

Morrissey has been singing the Smiths songs for decades with sub-par arrangements that pale in comparison to live versions with Johnny. For much of that time Johnny has chosen to do his own thing, and has gone the other way... moved away from his Smiths' days. If now he wants to play more Smiths' tunes on his tour, I think it's great! They may not be perfect, but neither are Morrissey's "covers". I love them both, I think they have equal rights to play these tunes.

 

[Amy]

Interesting.

I'd love to hear your theories on this, CG . Why do you think I loved that Magnet interview so much? It was so rare. Rare and wonderful.

 

[BabyTeen]

I think its excellent Johnny is rolling out some Smiths songs in his set and as per other posters we should just accept that Morrissey without Johnny is not The Smiths and Johnny without Morrissey is not The Smiths - instead we benefit from 2 sets of interpretations of songs from the best musical legacy ever!

My other point though is that I would love to see Johnny do versions of 'The Draize Train' and 'Money Changes Everything' in the set - they were excellent in The Smiths 86 tour set and would be great to see them done again..then we wouldn't even need the debate about vocals!

 

[kissmyshadestoo]

I dunno, this is a better video of HSIN.....sounds pretty good to me

 

[Amy]

So I went to see Johnny tonight. The vocals were unremarkable and so was the new material, but there really is no-one like him. I was almost in tears hearing him play There Is A Light and seeing his reaction to the crowd. I think he really relishes the chance to sing. Incredibly energetic performance.

 

[DAVIE]

When Marr does talk about the Smiths in a positive light (which he is doing moreso these days, I think) - it's as though the singer was never there.

Too bloody right!

My other point though is that I would love to see Johnny do versions of 'The Draize Train' and 'Money Changes Everything'

YEAHH! We want The Draize Train back Johnny Marr! I think he should give Rourke a call too, whilst he's at it!

 

[Guernie]

Keep singing Smith songs ! Love it.

 

[egosheep]

One small thing that I don't like is that he is singing the coda of There Is A Light, which Morrissey never did any of the times they played it live. It's a little odd.

 

[Peterb]

One small thing that I don't like is that he is singing the coda of There Is A Light, which Morrissey never did any of the times they played it live. It's a little odd.

Egosheep, by the coda do you mean the vocal improvisations at end of the song? Because Moz does sing it (rather beautifully) on Rank. I can't recall a later performance but surely he doesn't miss it out? It a marvellous ending.

 

[Amy]

Egosheep, by the coda do you mean the vocal improvisations at end of the song? Because Moz does sing it (rather beautifully) on Rank. I can't recall a later performance but surely he doesn't miss it out? It a marvellous ending.

As far as I know, Moz has never sung the ending of "There Is a Light.." (as in, the refrain repeating the title of the song) in his solo career. He didn't sing it on the "Who Put the M...." DVD and he didn't sing it live on tour this year.

 

[DAVIE]

Egosheep, by the coda do you mean the vocal improvisations at end of the song? Because Moz does sing it (rather beautifully) on Rank. I can't recall a later performance but surely he doesn't miss it out? It a marvellous ending.

He's probably sung it a few times, but I really cannot be bothered listening over 30 Smiths bootlegs to find out

 

[egosheep]

Egosheep, by the coda do you mean the vocal improvisations at end of the song? Because Moz does sing it (rather beautifully) on Rank. I can't recall a later performance but surely he doesn't miss it out? It a marvellous ending.

I mean when he sings "there is a light and it never goes out" at the end of the song. He doesn't ever sing this live.

He's probably sung it a few times, but I really cannot be bothered listening over 30 Smiths bootlegs to find out

I have bothered, and no, he never does sing it. Only on the recorded version, and the demo.