Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against humanity

[billy scissors]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

People theorsing on something based on texts that are thousands of years old?

That sounds familiar.

I like reading your posts,dont go the same way as jj and dc mate

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

The sun is a mass
of incandescent gas
A gigantic nuclear furnace

I look at what Dawkins is saying about religion being cultural and I have what I think is a pretty good example.

If we were to believe the old testament how is it that God did all that stuff and the Greeks and Romans completely missed it and instead of believing in one single god that created it all they each had their own pantheon?

I'm guessing one day someone walked up Mount Olympus to find Zeus et al but instead found a good place to ski.

Now instead of the Greek Law or Greek Theory we have Greek Mythology.

Yes, Dawkins is talking about religion and culture. People have questions and someone comes along who gives them an answer, and they give this person power. I rejected this as a child. But it is a huge leap to go from rejecting religion to believing that everything came from nothing randomly.

I didn't say you should believe anything from any religion. My whole point about Dawkins is expressed in your thought that he is talking about religion and culture. I can understand why he has the power he does, because religion has a powerful hold on people. When you are taught these beliefs at an early age they can be difficult to reject. Dawkins, like the priests of all cultures, presents his case in a very confident way. People can look at him and think he knows what he is talking about, and it helps them shake off that clinging superstition that they might be going to Hell because they lack Faith, or because they had bad thoughts, or whatever.

So I think that is his appeal. He lets people substitute one type of fuzzy thinking for another. If he frees people from the constraints of superstition that's fine, but he does nothing for me. He's just an alternative to organized religion. He offers nothing for someone who is already free of that and still looking for answers.

 

[Mars_Rover]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Dawkins' appeal is also that he makes those who agree with him feel smarter and thus superior to other people, particularly people of faith. It's the power of smug.

Hitchens is just delighted that anyone is paying attention to his Scotch-sodden self. He's a self-promoter.

 

[Flax]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Dawkins' appeal is also that he makes those who agree with him feel smarter and thus superior to other people, particularly people of faith. It's the power of smug.

Hitchens is just delighted that anyone is paying attention to his Scotch-sodden self. He's a self-promoter.

Let me see if I understand.

You're saying that people who draw theories based on observations, and conclusions based on evidence are less smart than people who think the answers to everything can be found in an ancient book, written by self-proclaimed prophets?

 

[Mars_Rover]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

I'm saying there are atheists and agnostics who aren't insufferably arrogant and condescending.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Let me see if I understand.

You're saying that people who draw theories based on observations, and conclusions based on evidence are less smart than people who think the answers to everything can be found in an ancient book, written by self-proclaimed prophets?

^^^This^^^

 

[bored]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

People theorsing on something based on texts that are thousands of years old?

That sounds familiar.

It's not based on texts. It's based on data taken years ago and compared with data taken today. We can see the deltas. The universe expanding is not a guess. It is mathematically proven. The Big Bang Theory has foundations in something concrete. The entire bible must be taken on faith, especially the book of Genesis.

 

[Flax]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

I'm saying there are atheists and agnostics who aren't insufferably arrogant and condescending.

And telling children they might burn in hell because a book said so, with no evidence whatsoever, is not arrogant at all, right?

To wear a dress and a golden hat and talk to millions of people as if you have a direct connection to a god you made up, giving them orders based on your interpretation of an ancient book is also not arrogant then, correct?

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

It's not based on texts. It's based on data taken years ago and compared with data taken today. We can see the deltas. The universe expanding is not a guess. It is mathematically proven. The Big Bang Theory has foundations in something concrete. The entire bible must be taken on faith, especially the book of Genesis.

The written word is a lie.

that's a joke by the way, based on the idea that all ideas are apparently equal and that deductive reasoning has no more value than making it up as you go.

I wouldn't call the expansion of the universe proven though. There is a theory that time is slowing down.

 

[bored]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

So I think that is his appeal. He lets people substitute one type of fuzzy thinking for another. If he frees people from the constraints of superstition that's fine, but he does nothing for me. He's just an alternative to organized religion. He offers nothing for someone who is already free of that and still looking for answers.

But Dawkins doesn't say "There is no god." He says, "There probably is no god."

He leaves room for things he can't explain. Most theists do not leave room that their BELIEF has the potential for being wrong.

Things like the BBT are not fuzzy. As Flax pointed out, they passed enough scientific testing to become a theory. The old testament has failed to do that. To call both arguments fuzzy in misleading as it suggests that both are in the same stage of testing. Theism has has been handed down to generations upon generations based on fear that if you don't believe bad things will happen to you. Dawkins thinks it is bad to put fear into children who cannot understand the concept or the alternative and religion has a lot to do with culture and little to do with proof.

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

And telling children they might burn in hell because a book said so, with no evidence whatsoever, is not arrogant at all, right?

To wear a dress and a golden hat and talk to millions of people as if you have a direct connection to a god you made up, giving them orders based on your interpretation of an ancient book is also not arrogant then, correct?

Remember when I said that Dawkins is the other side of the coin? You're getting to that in your own way.

 

[Flax]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Remember when I said that Dawkins is the other side of the coin? You're getting to that in your own way.

I'm getting to the other side of an imaginary coin by asking questions?

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

But Dawkins doesn't say "There is no god." He says, "There probably is no god."

He leaves room for things he can't explain. Most theists do not leave room that their BELIEF has the potential for being wrong.

Things like the BBT are not fuzzy. As Flax pointed out, they passed enough scientific testing to become a theory. The old testament has failed to do that. To call both arguments fuzzy in misleading as it suggests that both are in the same stage of testing. Theism has has been handed down to generations upon generations based on fear that if you don't believe bad things will happen to you. Dawkins thinks it is bad to put fear into children who cannot understand the concept or the alternative and religion has a lot to do with culture and little to do with proof.

Dude. I am not saying that the BBT is fuzzy thinking. I agree with you. Don't pin the Old Testament on me. I think it's mythology as well.

Dawkins is about religion and culture. He is not about "God". One can believe in Intelligent Design for example, which indicates an intelligence, without believing in any brand of man-made religion.

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

I'm getting to the other side of an imaginary coin by asking questions?

Yes, you are like Socrates.

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

It's not based on texts. It's based on data taken years ago and compared with data taken today. We can see the deltas. The universe expanding is not a guess. It is mathematically proven. The Big Bang Theory has foundations in something concrete. The entire bible must be taken on faith, especially the book of Genesis.

What is the proof that the dat taken years ago is accurate?
It fits in with data taken now but it could just as easily not. I work in statistics so I know that what you do if you don't get the answer you want, is to use a different measure until you do; it's what climate scientists (on both sides of that argument) have done for years.

So we've got to take a leap of faith that the scientific data taken many years ago is accurate whilst mocking people who believe something else written many years ago, at the same time.

This has been my point all along.

PS By many years ago, I mean the data taken hundreds/thousands of years ago that you mention. From the Victorian era onwards, data recording has become ever more accurate. No so accurate that it can't be manipulated, but pretty good.

 

[Flax]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Dawkins is about religion and culture. He is not about "God". One can believe in Intelligent Design for example, which indicates an intelligence, without believing in any brand of man-made religion.

Holy... Baby... BeeGeesus...

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

^^^This^^^

What theory does Dawkins put forth? He basically says that various religions are silly and that people's religious beliefs are randomly assigned based on the culture they are raised in. He rejects religion which is fine, but I have yet to see anyone post anything he says that resembles science.

 

[Dave]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Holy... Baby... BeeGeesus...

He explicitly talks about religion and culture in the video. You can post facepalms but you have yet to refute what I am saying.

 

[mikael]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

The writers of the Bible perhaps were responding to the times and the Roman empire? Making it (the Bible) an interesting read at the time, giving hope to people oppressed at the time. Certain sentiments seem timeless though (ten commandments etc).

Perhaps I should adjust that, the Bible is still very much an interesting read.

Anyway, so after X thousands of dollars I'm a OTVIII, anyone else any higher?

 

[Emotional Guide Dog]

Re: Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against huma

Can I use this time to post my most mocked viewpoint (but one that I am convinced of)?

Science & religion are not totally exclusive. Evolution is explained in the Old Testament. 'God created the world in six days & on the seventh day he rested etc'

Day one: Single cell organisms
Day two: Aquatic creatures
Day thee: Dinosaurs

Up to day seven which is now.

Laugh all you want.