Big Issue / Robin Ince: "You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?" (April 30, 2024)

You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?

You can grow up to be Morrissey. Or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr

Johnny Marr has become the keeper of The Smiths flame, proof to their younger fans that going politically skew-whiff isn't inevitable.

www.bigissue.com

'Usual' article.
FWD.

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Robin Ince's Bibliomaniac book advertised in the above Big Issue contains the following Morrissey mentions:

On the way to Chorlton I pass the Southern Cemetery, inspiration for The Smiths’ ‘Cemetry Gates’, in which Morrissey recalled the ‘dreaded sunny day’ when he would walk around the memorials and slabs with his friend, the artist Linder Sterling, quoting Keats and Yeats and Oscar Wilde.

Richard also appeared on the page on which I first opened Morrissey’s autobiography, ‘and then Richard Boon said something very unhelpful’. Compared to many others, he survived Morrissey’s book unscathed.

I am surrounded by paintings of gardens, so I use this as the spur to talk about nature, chimpanzees and the psychological advantages of looking at acorns and oak trees. I overrun (with permission) and then take questions, which include ‘Do you meditate?’ No. I can’t shut this grey matter up. And ‘Who would win in a fight – Alan Moore or Morrissey?’ Alan Moore would both refuse to fight and at the same time mentally crush Morrissey, so he would be left untouched, but utterly vanquished on the canvas.

 

[marred]

What a load of shit. I am neither.

 

[gashonthenail]

Well yes. He's never going to get much in the way of coverage / airplay via the BBC / music press / broadsheets unless in some way he addresses the perception that has (fairly or unfairly) grown around him.

You may be right that "most" ordinary people would agree with him - but then it's hard to know exactly they'd be agreeing (or not) with, since he's never been clear about it himself. If he wants to make the case, for example, that Britain is being over-run by immigration, and if most ordinary Brits (as I think you're implying) would back him on that, then surely it would be better for him to just come out and say it, and be prepared to defend his argument - rather than just dropping little bombs here and there and then running away and claiming persecution.

I remain a huge fan, I just genuinely don't understand his strategy with this stuff. ("Strategy" may be totally the wrong word here.)

Yes, you are right about 'strategy' - never a word that could be applied to Moz when he opens his mouth. He must know that himself, given one of his most well known Smiths singles. And in these days of social media and the censorious mind set, where everyone on Twitter appears to be the off spring of Mary Whitehouse, Morrissey's weakness for plain speaking will get you in more trouble than any listed crime.

 

[MrMouse]

It’s astonishing how the fake narrative that Morrissey is the devil and Marr is an angel still persists. So boring, so tired, so patronising. Unfortunately Johnny’s false image is even more protected by the media now identity politics has become so fashionable and now most human beings behave like brain dead sheep. The increasingly Marxist UK media continues to act like the Mafia and shield those who toe the party line and push left wing ideas, meanwhile they crucify anyone who dares to think and act a free spirited individual. Morrissey should be proud he is hated and feared by the British mainstream media.

 

[Big Mouff]

In the spirit of F M K. I'd rather be Johnny Marr.

I could run a marathon.

I could finish more than one tour in a year.

The albums I put out are improving.

The only people that have a negative opinion of me are people that don't like me because they like someone else who doesn't like me.

Yeah. I'd rather be Johnny Marr.

 

[Nobody’s Nothing]

It’s astonishing how the fake narrative that Morrissey is the devil and Marr is an angel still persists. So boring, so tired, so patronising. Unfortunately Johnny’s false image is even more protected by the media now identity politics has become so fashionable and now most human beings behave like brain dead sheep. The increasingly Marxist UK media continues to act like the Mafia and shield those who toe the party line and push left wing ideas, meanwhile they crucify anyone who dares to think and act a free spirited individual. Morrissey should be proud he is hated and feared by the British mainstream media.

So correct. Whether or not you agree with Morrissey’s political views, he has every right to have them and you opinions are no more valid than his. I saw at short the other day that sums up today world that said “just because your offended, doesn’t make you correct” . Pretty much sum it up.

You know what is strange, everything I hear some say Morrissey is racist, I ask them what he said or did that was racist and maybe 1 in 10 can even form a response. 90% are mindlessly influenced by stories just like this.

let me tell you I am not happy with Morrissey either. He treats his fans like and is the most self-sabotaging person I have ever seen, but regardless, he is a one of a kind legend no matter how much people try and pretend he is not!

 

[Nobody’s Nothing]

Btw, Marr is a wanker. He is not doing justice to the smiths legacy by putting down Morrissey. Most of the letter Morrissey wrote was the truth, however Morrissey should have refrained and not reponded publicly. I’m sure a quick text directly to Marr would have been a better way to express his frustration.

 

[Gray Fruit]

Btw, Marr is a wanker. He is not doing justice to the smiths legacy by putting down Morrissey. Most of the letter Morrissey wrote was the truth, however Morrissey should have refrained and not reponded publicly. I’m sure a quick text directly to Marr would have been a better way to express his frustration.

Where was it that Marr put down Morrissey? He just said they were different and not friends, which was the truth. Marr is very careful with the Smiths, that's why he is now the keeper of the legacy. Morrissey was gaslighting everyone with that letter that Marr was out to get him, all the insults in that letter came from Morrissey's imagination and were things Marr had never said in print.

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly. Both Moz and Marr have had their public spats in the press in the past, but it's been several years since Johnny has said anything truly nasty about him in public.

Personally I don't go in for this 'hero' and 'villain' stuff - both of them are human beings, and like all I expect them to be flawed individuals in real life. The simple fact is that Johnny has spent the last several years relentlessly promoting his solo career in the press, talking to literally hundreds of journalists/radio hosts/TV presenters, and generally presenting himself as a 'decent bloke' in any professional or public encounters. He also turns up, plays gigs, and seems to be pretty easy to deal with. Of course he gets good press - why wouldn't he?

Morrissey on the other hand, refuses to talk to the press to give his side of any negative stories or correct any , and sits stewing in his bunker, occasionally lobbing out abuse towards labels, people who don't appreciate him etc. He even manages to alienate a large chunk of his remaining fanbase by cancelling massive numbers of shows on a whim, usually with no explanation or apology to those fans who've lost a packet on travel/hotels etc.

Some of Morrissey's dodgier political comments in the past are going to hang around his neck forever now - no matter how he presents himself in the future. He's gone from 2nd place in the public Greatest British Icon vote of 2006, to a pariah of recent years entirely down to his own statements. But the fact that one of the pair acts as a professional and the other like a bitter old diva really isn't helping the situation. I know Morrissey doesn't want to 'play the game', but I really hope his new manager can persuade him to give it a go, and start to try and repair some of his (largely-self inflicted) damage.

Or, I dunno - maybe he really does like being a 'villain'?

 

[Ste Wriggers]

Interesting thoughts but I think there is a partial way back.
He really needs to have it on record that he regrets promoting a right-wing political party which he did so unambiguously by pleading for their support on his website, and then a year later wearing their emblem in front of millions.
He can explain that their leader was a pro-animal rights feminist who had switched between parties (including Labour) and he didn't fully understand what she stood for under For Britain.
Then if/when a new single comes out (or when he next trends on Twitter) and radio stations get bashed for playing it, they can at least point to this article explaining how he regrets and withdraws the support, and the station (which could be Radio 2) can weather the storm.
The problem since 2019 is that there are lots of places where you can find quotes for him supporting the party (on Wikipedia etc) but there is literally nowhere to provide evidence that he regrets what he did and that it was a mistake. Anyone coming to the issue neutrally would conclude that he still holds those views. He thought that telling everyone that he has never voted would get him off the hook, but that was clearly never going to work. Wearing a t-shirt saying, 'I'm not far right, I'm far forward' was equally pointless.

Morrissey will never explain because a) he knows exactly what he said and was doing...he will always put any animal rights issue above any fairytale religion that ritually kills them and b) he's a bit stubborn...but he's quite right and free to be so. Lots of people said they hated him way before he started spouting about For Britain, so I doubt he actually cares that much, and I do think he says these things to be willfully controversial, which he would never admit. Likewise I know lots of old Smiths fans who seem to genuinely believe Johnny Marr's solo career has been as successful as Morrissey's...I don't understand what planet they're living on but this article is just playing into that narrative too. They are the one's missing out...so they can go and stand motionless without any excitement watching a Johnny Marr gig, praying he keeps in tune, whilst the rest of us can continue to go wild at Morrissey's concerts like we have done for 40 years...it's their loss at the end of the day!

 

[gashonthenail]

"I can't think of one sentence [I regret saying]. We're still at that stage where if I rescued a kitten from drowning, they'd say: 'Morrissey Mauls Kitten's Body'. So what can you do?"

Morrissey speaking to the NME, 1985

And here we are, in 2024.

 

[gordyboy9]

I think what you said is spot on. But I still believe that if he came out with some truly brilliant music and I mean much better than what I heard on BOT or WMTWD... much would be forgiven/overlooked. Of course, even if he does and gets a new record contract - he's going to have to stop the constant canceling on his fans with no explanation. He's just shrinking an already dwindling fanbase.

doubt it would be overlooked/forgiven as reviewers these days cant seperate the art from the artist,dog was rated his best by some reviewers since vauxhall and yet he still cant get a deal.

 

[gordyboy9]

In the spirit of F M K. I'd rather be Johnny Marr.

I could run a marathon.

I could finish more than one tour in a year.

The albums I put out are improving.

The only people that have a negative opinion of me are people that don't like me because they like someone else who doesn't like me.

Yeah. I'd rather be Johnny Marr.

yeah and be quite boring and stick to the middle ground and work with inferior artists just to be part of the in-crowd,its all a bit safe.
this isnt just for john martin maher its for most people in music these days,there is no such thing as rock these days,these days there is pop and there is a bit heavier pop,when was the last time a music star did anything out of the ordinary which made the papers,at least hotels can be safe in the knowledge that when a rock band rolls into town their tv will still be on the wall in the morning and not in the street,think we all miss those days.

 

[Redacted]

I think people in the UK are more 'politically correct' and 'woke' than the US in general, so I think Morrissey's political comments are more of an issue there. I don't really have a problem with his political comments and I don't have an issue with people on the right or even the far right, but Morrissey has said some other things I don't really like and has made me think a lot less of him. I also think his palpable disdain for his fans is an issue , but he knows he will always have apologists and ass kissers, like any cult leader.

 

[ZZ Top]

“Everyone grows out of their Morrissey phase. Apart from morrissey.”
Sean Hughes

 

[Les Tameside]

Btw, Marr is a wanker. He is not doing justice to the smiths legacy by putting down Morrissey. Most of the letter Morrissey wrote was the truth, however Morrissey should have refrained and not reponded publicly. I’m sure a quick text directly to Marr would have been a better way to express his frustration.

Marr is the model of diplomacy (that itself might irk); he might express frustration and disagreement, but I’ve never seen him put any other members of The Smiths down.

 

[Stephen Hofmann]

Interesting thoughts but I think there is a partial way back.
He really needs to have it on record that he regrets promoting a right-wing political party which he did so unambiguously by pleading for their support on his website, and then a year later wearing their emblem in front of millions.
He can explain that their leader was a pro-animal rights feminist who had switched between parties (including Labour) and he didn't fully understand what she stood for under For Britain.
Then if/when a new single comes out (or when he next trends on Twitter) and radio stations get bashed for playing it, they can at least point to this article explaining how he regrets and withdraws the support, and the station (which could be Radio 2) can weather the storm.
The problem since 2019 is that there are lots of places where you can find quotes for him supporting the party (on Wikipedia etc) but there is literally nowhere to provide evidence that he regrets what he did and that it was a mistake. Anyone coming to the issue neutrally would conclude that he still holds those views. He thought that telling everyone that he has never voted would get him off the hook, but that was clearly never going to work. Wearing a t-shirt saying, 'I'm not far right, I'm far forward' was equally pointless.

Right-wing political parties and independents are the only hope the West and the US have in saving what's left of western society. Never bow down to the madness. Ever.

 

[Banbury Moz Army]

You can grow up to be Morrissey or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr – which are you?

You can grow up to be Morrissey. Or you can grow up to be Johnny Marr

Johnny Marr has become the keeper of The Smiths flame, proof to their younger fans that going politically skew-whiff isn't inevitable.

www.bigissue.com

'Usual' article.
FWD.

---

Robin Ince's Bibliomaniac book advertised in the above Big Issue contains the following Morrissey mentions:

On the way to Chorlton I pass the Southern Cemetery, inspiration for The Smiths’ ‘Cemetry Gates’, in which Morrissey recalled the ‘dreaded sunny day’ when he would walk around the memorials and slabs with his friend, the artist Linder Sterling, quoting Keats and Yeats and Oscar Wilde.

Richard also appeared on the page on which I first opened Morrissey’s autobiography, ‘and then Richard Boon said something very unhelpful’. Compared to many others, he survived Morrissey’s book unscathed.

I am surrounded by paintings of gardens, so I use this as the spur to talk about nature, chimpanzees and the psychological advantages of looking at acorns and oak trees. I overrun (with permission) and then take questions, which include ‘Do you meditate?’ No. I can’t shut this grey matter up. And ‘Who would win in a fight – Alan Moore or Morrissey?’ Alan Moore would both refuse to fight and at the same time mentally crush Morrissey, so he would be left untouched, but utterly vanquished on the canvas.

"Now I just sit back and yawn...."

 

[caramel sea salt]

I wouldn't want to be Johnny Marr, but if I was he'd have a much better haircut and singing voice!

 

[The Alchemist]

Never knew about the confusion..."son and heir" is a known phrase, "sun and air" isn't, as far as I know. Re article, so you can be a d*** (by implication like Morrissey) or you can be kind (by implication like Johnny Marr) - that is a bit extreme. So you can't be one on one occasion and the other at a different time?

Exactly this.

But that wouldn't fit the divisive nature of today's global media headlines and relentless written tripe.

Every day, you must say...

Oh, which side should I be on?

 

[Redacted]

As a non native speaker, it might have been as well "I am the sun and the hair".

I am a native speaker and I thought it was sun and air and I also thought 'of a shyness that is criminally vulgar' was 'I've a shyness that is criminally vulgar'. I am not even going to try to explain how it made sense in my head.

But it's a little confusing, because son and heir mean the same thing, if you are a son or an offspring, you are also an heir unless otherwise specified, like in a line of succession or regarding inheritances