Is circumcision child abuse ?

[dunya]

I refer readers to my previous comment:

http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/showpost.php?p=882280&postcount=45

My Mother had this dilemma with my younger brother. She put if off, but eventually he HAD to have it done at age 19. In his case sooner would have avoided the continued physical and emotional distress. Kinder in the long run.
It's a difficult decision to make.

I think should only be done if absolutely neccessary.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

There are an awful lot of awfully real, more pressing versions of child abuse to worry about first.

However, there doesn't seem to be a valid reason for it. It should be quietly discontinued. I disagree that it's harmful, though. All the cut penises I've ever encountered worked well and their owners seemed happy with them.

 

[mcrickson]

This is an urban lord-of-the-sith.

If you wash your hickory-dickory in the bath/shower every day you will be clean as a whistle, circumcised or not. Let this be an end to this right royal polava.

Oh -- I was just throwing that out there. I wasn't quite sure

>shrugs<
It having already been done to me (so there's no sense for me whining about it ), and the fact that I don't plan on having children sort of makes this topic immaterial to me.

 

[The Cat's Mother]

My Mother had this dilemma with my younger brother. She put if off, but eventually he HAD to have it done at age 19. In his case sooner would have avoided the continued physical and emotional distress. Kinder in the long run.
It's a difficult decision to make.

I think should only be done if absolutely necessary.

My father, as far as I can ascertain, was circumcised as a young adult. But it was his own decision and that makes a lot of difference.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

I believe the American Academy of Pediatrics has changed its recommendation and now suggests it should not be routinely done; there is just no reason to do it.

It's just not a super-pressing issue, though, in my mind, when there are so many other problems.

 

[Dave]

Child abuse, except is it? It doesn't hurt them, really. It doesn't really impact the functioning of the organ. There are worse things we routinely do to kids.

It's just archaic and pointless. If you don't like it, don't have it done to your sons.

The argument "if you don't like it don't have it done to your sons" is ridiculous ethically and legally. It would imply that pretty much anything a parent wanted to do to their child was their right.

No! Of course not. You think sexual abuse doesn't hurt kids?

Circumcision is much more like ear piercing.

An operation that serves the sole purpose of removing sensation is not "like ear piercing". It actually is a form of sexual abuse, because it is cultural and unnecessary, and because it removes pleasure.

You seem awfully defensive about your parenting skills, and what's done can't be undone, but just accept that you made the best decision you could at the time.

 

[Cassius]

Jews are supposed to have their son circumsized but I don't think that I would do it.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

The argument "if you don't like it don't have it done to your sons" is ridiculous ethically and legally. It would imply that pretty much anything a parent wanted to do to their child was their right.



An operation that serves the sole purpose of removing sensation is not "like ear piercing". It actually is a form of sexual abuse, because it is cultural and unnecessary, and because it removes pleasure.

You seem awfully defensive about your parenting skills, and what's done can't be undone, but just accept that you made the best decision you could at the time.

Thanks for the tip, Dave. I'll sleep so much better now that you've put in your two cents.

I'm just saying that ear piercing is just as bad (and is done twice!) and either way, it's a stupid argument when the practice is largely harmless and is beginning to die out because there is no good reason to do it.

And there is real, actual, harmful sexual abuse going on (like female genital mutilation, which is poles apart) that we could focus on before turning our attention to an archaic practice that's on the way out already. Don't you think? This is like protesting... making them wear diapers! Dammit, diapers chafe! It's cruel, and should be stopped!

Further, you have no basis here on which to force people to stop doing something their religion demands. Female genital mutilation is not comparable, it's cultural, not religious. Would you try to force women to stop wearing hijab because they're moderately uncomfortable in summer?

Actually, I saw a mom at our school who turned hers to good use. She tucked her open cell phone into her headscarf, creating a no-cost hands-free solution. Hand held phones are banned here. Smart lady!

Anyway, sometimes men try so hard to drag up issues to whine about. Women trump them, always, and some boys are sour about this.

 

[Flax]

Child abuse, except is it? It doesn't hurt them, really. It doesn't really impact the functioning of the organ. There are worse things we routinely do to kids.

It's just archaic and pointless. If you don't like it, don't have it done to your sons.

Yes it does.

 

[Cassius]

I have a question: are there any health benefits to being circumsized? One of my boyfriend's coworkers had to get circumsized at age 60 due to health reasons--is that a rarity?

 

[Arsenal]

Taking a third of a babies penis off, without permission, in a violent proceedure is abusive?

Surely not!

 

[Flax]

I have a question: are there any health benefits to being circumsized? One of my boyfriend's coworkers had to get circumsized at age 60 due to health reasons--is that a rarity?

For the vast majority of people there are no health benefits.
Very few men need to have it done if the foreskin is too tight. But these cases are very rare.

Circumcision is basically a religious ritual of mutilation, which exists in order to curb masturbation.

 

[down_in_albion]

I have a question: are there any health benefits to being circumsized? One of my boyfriend's coworkers had to get circumsized at age 60 due to health reasons--is that a rarity?

There are some conditions that require circumcision due to genuine medical necessity, such as phimosis, but these are extremely rare. Most circumcisions in actuality are due to parental or cultural values.

 

[Dave]

Thanks for the tip, Dave. I'll sleep so much better now that you've put in your two cents.

I'm just saying that ear piercing is just as bad (and is done twice!) and either way, it's a stupid argument when the practice is largely harmless and is beginning to die out because there is no good reason to do it.

And there is real, actual, harmful sexual abuse going on (like female genital mutilation, which is poles apart) that we could focus on before turning our attention to an archaic practice that's on the way out already. Don't you think? This is like protesting... making them wear diapers! Dammit, diapers chafe! It's cruel, and should be stopped!

Further, you have no basis here on which to force people to stop doing something their religion demands. Female genital mutilation is not comparable, it's cultural, not religious. Would you try to force women to stop wearing hijab because they're moderately uncomfortable in summer?

Actually, I saw a mom at our school who turned hers to good use. She tucked her open cell phone into her headscarf, creating a no-cost hands-free solution. Hand held phones are banned here. Smart lady!

Anyway, sometimes men try so hard to drag up issues to whine about. Women trump them, always, and some boys are sour about this.

Your demonstrated attitude is that your problems are the problems that matter. Enjoy.

 

[Cassius]

For the vast majority of people there are no health benefits.
Very few men need to have it done if the foreskin is too tight. But these cases are very rare.

Circumcision is basically a religious ritual of mutilation, which exists in order to curb masturbation.

There are some conditions that require circumcision due to genuine medical necessity in some cases, such as phimosis, but these are extremely rare. Most circumcisions in actuality are generally due to parental or cultural pressure.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Arsenal]

Further, you have no basis here on which to force people to stop doing something their religion demands

It's called common sense, based on factual scientific evidence.

When people realize it is wrong or factually incorrect/based on ignorance, one would hope they would choose to stop doing it based on that realization.

That, and having your child's penis cut seems horrible, vile, violent and just plain incorrect. I dunno, call me crazy but if I had a child the last thing on my mind would be to have the doctor take a knife to his penis.

I must be mad, surely.

 

[down_in_albion]

It's called common sense, based on factual scientific evidence.

When people realize it is wrong or factually incorrect/based on ignorance, one would hope they would choose to stop doing it based on that realization.

That, and having your child's penis cut seems horrible, vile, violent and just plain incorrect. I dunno, call me crazy but if I had a child the last thing on my mind would be to have the doctor take a knife to his penis.

I must be mad, surely.

I suspect the religious aspect is the main driving factor in the prevalence of the practice but it also bleeds into the culture as a whole. By far the highest numbers of circumcisions are in the US and Canada with 75% and 30% respectively, as opposed to the UK for example which is around 3.5%. I realise the US is a far more religious society than Britain but I don't think think the same can be said of Canada.

 

[Arsenal]

I suspect the religious aspect is the main driving factor in the prevalence of the practice but it also bleeds into the culture as a whole.

Yes, the religious aspect 'bleeds' into society, and people find themselves doing it without questioning the morality behind it, much like in a religious institution.

How sad people don't like to actually think for themselves or question things.

I don't think think the same can be said of Canada.

Sadly, it can.

The vast majority of people are religious here.

There are something like 12 million catholics alone (last I checked), not to mention the other religions. When you take into account the population is only 30 odd million, you can see it's pretty much religion dominated.

 

[down_in_albion]

Yes, the religious aspect 'bleeds' into society, and people find themselves doing it without questioning the morality behind it, much like in a religious institution.

How sad people don't like to actually think for themselves or question things.

I can only speak from the experience of my own society, where a rapid decline has occurred in the last 50 years. The main driving force has been the decision by the NHS to cease the practice due to its classification as a "ritual" modification. Since that decision, parents now have to pay a fee to get the procedure done and it seems like even a substantial portion of "religious" Britons felt it wasn't worth the expense.

Sadly, it can.

The vast majority of people are religious here.

There are something like 12 million catholics alone (last I checked), not to mention the other religions. When you take into account the population is only 30 odd million, you can see it's pretty much religion dominated.

I didn't realise this, thanks for the info.

 

[nogodsnomasters85]

I wouldn't quite call it child abuse, but it's unnecessary, and I think people shouldn't do it unless it's medically necessary, which is rare.